2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Assignments

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 21, 2012.

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  1. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    Wait. Regarding to wtt,I thought 4cc and euro has a higher priority than jw. Will the rule change next season?
  2. Gliding on ice

    Gliding on ice New Member

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    Total agree with you that the Chinese Fed should send Yan to GP and 4CC. They do care about WTT, but who knows what else is on their mind :confused:
  3. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they want to see how Nan Song will do. But I agree than Han Yan should go senior especially with his upgrades. After all, he's already won junior worlds, so he won't improve as much as he would with different competition.
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Do we know if it was the Federation or Yan's coaches/himself that decided to stay on the JGP?

    In any event, at least he will still be challenged on the JGP with the likes of Farris, Brown, Tanaka, etc sticking around another season as well. Honestly though I wish they had all moved up...
  5. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    Based on his weibo, the Chinese twitter, he was holding out hopes for the TBA spot at COC the day GP assignments were released. poor kid was guaranteed a spot!
  6. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Agreed - Brown, Farris and Yan were all DEFINITELY ready to go up.
  7. nyrak

    nyrak Active Member

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    I'm looking forward to seeing Nobunari Oda skate in Windsor, remind me again why he didn't compete last year? <bad fan> ;)
  8. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    Injury as far as I recall. But then again I'm very meh about Oda in general.
  9. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    He was extremely musical and interesting back in 2005 with the Super Mario and Zatoichi programs. And then his choreogaphies and musicality kind of went downhill when he went to Morosov. And he never really got it back.

    Did he even get to skate the Sebestyen Brittan programs he got choreographed for this past seasons? Just once at Cup of China?
  10. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    2011 Eric Bompard? Fell 3 times in LP. Very bad knee injury.
  11. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least they will at least have some honest competition in the form of each other on the JGP this fall :shuffle:.

    I mean, I get they are young, but they were all guaranteed spots, so why not let them move up? FS politiks are so confusing. Yan and Farris especially could have used the exposure to get their names out as favorites to make the 2014 Olympic teams, everyone knows that they are pretty much as good if not better already than their countrymen Nan Song and Adam Rippon and Ross Miner, and have the potential to go much farther in the future than these guys, but maybe that's what their respective federations were afraid of because they are maybe hoping to groom them for 2018 instead? And maybe are worried if they have these young kids beating the guys who are supposed to be the best bets for the 2014 Olympics it will hurt those guys chances of doing well/medaling there? (Not that I expect Song, Rippon, or Miner to medal at the Olympics if they even make it at all, but maybe the federations are delusional and think they have a good shot to...). In any event, Yan and Farris, and Brown if he can get the 3a and hopefully a quad into his arsenal, actually feasibly COULD medal at the Olympics, but it wouldn't happen in 2014 considering their young ages (Hanyu is an exception to this generalization), so I could see the sense in grooming them to break out on the senior scene and really make a splash AFTER the 2014 Olympics (or at least after next season which will be what people are paying attention to going into the Olympics) when many of the guys still competing will have retired and the chances of these guys making a big impact right away will be greater.

    The way I see it, no way will the likes of Takahashi, Oda, Joubert, Abbott, Verner, and likely even Chan if he wins OGM as expected, stick around after Sochi. Then there's a chance skaters like Amodio, Kozuka, Brezina, Song, and Rippon would retire after Sochi, and though it's unlikely, if someone like Hanyu or Fernandez were to medal/win there, there's a chance they could also retire. Of course there will be new talent coming up through the ranks, but you don't see skaters the caliber of Chan, Hanyu, and Takahashi every quadrennial, far from it. Right now, it's hard to make the top 10 at Worlds, if someone like Yan or Farris were to make the Olympic team, finishing in the top 10 would be a big accomplishment, but after the 2014 retirements? They could easily be in the position of being medal contenders leading up to 2018.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  12. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Haha, can you just see it at JGPF? "...Oh, you again."

    No doubt people would then complain if this year's JGPF and JW podiums had the same three skaters on them this year as last year (whether in the same order is up for conjecture)...

    They may be young, but if they are good enough, I'm of the opinion that holding them back is more likely to damage than help. Joshua wanted to go up - so what's the harm in letting him test his strength against the international seniors? Holding him back is more likely to create doubts, not just in the skater's mind, but in the judges'. The judges are going to see these three again on the Junior circuit and you can bet some of them will be asking the question - what does the Federation know about these skaters that they held them back?

    Joshua, Jason and Han are all victims of federations not wanting to upset established skaters. It's unfair, and it sucks. They should be allowed to pit themselves against the established skaters, and if they beat them, well, tough luck to the established skaters.

    Artur Gachinski is just one year older than Joshua and Jason and already will be in his third Senior season this year. The Federation supported him when he indicated that he was ready, and so he moved up. Was he too young in his first Senior season? He was 17 - the same age Joshua and Jason are now. And he won the World bronze medal. I'm not saying exactly the same thing could happen, but it sure shows that if you support your skater by backing them, good things can happen.
  13. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    Also France/TEB where he had an epic meltdown in the free skate. I don't think it was ever made clear he was injured at the time, but you'd kinda almost have to hope so...

    Britten really choreographed the LP? I can see going the jazz route but IMO that program was either awful on its own or Oda was simply unable to interpret it properly. That's extra disappointing. I became a big fan based on his 2005 programs which I loved, but he was never the same after the DUI. :(
  14. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Britten's programs, well the music choices to be more exact, were just totally awful and not even Takahashi or Chan could pull them off.

    I really don't understand how program's like that even get made.
  15. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    ugh so disappointing same top 3 n JGPF
    the only good about this will be Brown finally getting his 3A

    If he gets that, he is pretty much unbeatable
    Farris is too boring to compete with Brown only Yan can challenge him
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  16. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Wait...you think FARRIS is boring, but that YAN is "exciting" enough to compete with Brown?

    Someone needs their eyes checked...last time I looked, Farris and Brown were about fifty million steps ahead of Yan in musicality, fluidity, and presentation. Yan's jumps were good, but his artistry really let him down. Farris' artistry was what got him to within half a point of winning the Junior World Championship!

    (But then, I guess you ARE the same person that claimed Artur Gachinski never won anything on the Junior circuit...)
  17. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Han (with a triple axel and quad) I see as a victim of his federation and maybe Farris. Brown though is no victim, a skater without a triple axel is well suited into junior skating, in my opinion. There he can practice his triple axel, if he is getting ready for a try-out.

    Well, maybe Chinese Federation will give him much better choreography for coming season? In that case Han will be unbeatable, in my opinion.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  18. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I could agree, but your argument would work better if he hadn't come 9th at Senior Nationals last year with three falls, beating certain skaters such as Mroz and Dornbush... :lol:
  19. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Right, but what about skaters placed 4-8? Surely they deserve a shot at senior assignments too? Well, Razzano got something, but the others...I think if Brown and Farris get top 5 this year at Nationals and are successful as juniors again internationally, they will get senior GP next season.
  20. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    I like Razanno and will be happy to see him at SA. I'm still baffled that Armin didn't get an assignment and Dornbush got 2 (?).
    I have no problem with Brown and Ferris speding one more year at the JGP, considering the large Men's field.
  21. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't seem to be a hindrance for Yan so far though. And his SS is considerably better than the other two at this point in their career. He's also the youngest. All he needs is some legitimate choreography and better packaging. There's so much raw talent.
  22. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    That is no indication of how good Brown is, but more of how unsuccesful others were... The level just isn´t very high, LOL.
  23. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    All 3 got comparable, very high PCS at junior worlds so I think that argument is moot.

    Jason Brown is no victim of the USFS. They freaking love him and have given him monstrous scores at Nationals the past 2 seasons despite having no 3a and making mistakes. I wouldn't be surprised if the decision to stay on the JGP was his own, he hasn't done the 3a in competition yet and he said in an interview a year or two back he wasn't going to rush into seniors internationally and planned to do the JGP for a couple more years at least, just like Lysacek did. He said his goal was now 2018 anyways where the 3a is taking longer to master than he expected. I think the USFS can afford to do this because they know he isn't a threat to the "established" skaters without a 3a. When and if he gets a solid 3a, I could see the lovefest ending, at least until after Sochi...

    Farris seems to be a victim of the USFS. He didn't skate well at Nationals but his scores were still too low, all those guys with ladies content did not deserve to place ahead of him when he went for 2 triple axels and a 4t in his FS, and further, getting significantly lower PCS at Nationals as a senior compared to his internationals as a junior is fishy, especially when others were getting huge bonuses. I mean, the JW silver medalist, who came 0.47 from winning the entire championship with the highest score in history, was 16TH at US nationals? Really? The USFS knows this kid is good and has the goods to overtake someone like Rippon, Dornbush, or Miner very easily and quickly, and they are trying to prevent that. Jason has no 3a yet so they don't worry about him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he starts trying 3a with success in his programs, if he faces similar treatment the next couple years. USFS is blatantly holding Joshua Farris back in order to prevent him from overtaking the likes of Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush, etc before the 2014 Olympics. After Sochi I'm sure they will all of a sudden be supportive of him and give him the attention and scores he deserves, but until then, I expect more of the same. I'm confident that Joshua could skate well enough to earn a spot on this season's world team, but not very confident that the USFS would give him the scores at nationals to be sent, they'll likely deflate or keep his PCS the same as internationally while inflating everyone elses hugely to keep him as low as possible. Josh wanted to move up, he had a senior invitation guaranteed, he has the goods to move up, his SB was as high as the 2nd and 3rd place finishers at US Senior Nationals, he medaled at all his junior internationals this season, and the USFS says "No, you're staying junior another season." Umm wtf.

    The situation in China is also similar, Nan Song was pretty much a non-factor but then he has a good season on the GP and all of a sudden he's the new focus of China even though Yan at 16 is already much stronger in terms of skating skills, speed, and artistry. They are all gung ho for Song for Sochi and will make Yan wait his turn and likely keep him junior until after Sochi, unless Song manages to get 2 spots for the Olympics by placing in the top 10 at this season's worlds, which seems like a stretch considering he was 14th this year with that very strong FS.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Some of the 2012 US Nationals Senior Men's free skates I really enjoyed came from the earlier groups where the level was quite high, IMO: Scott Dyer, Jonathan Cassar, Grant Hochstein and Alex Johnson, to name four.

    ETA: I hope Joshua Farris doesn't think of himself as a "victim" and continues to focus on his overall skating progress. The mental pressures of skating successfully at the senior national and international level are immense -- it's much more than attempting/landing the most difficult jumps in competition.

    I think Mahbanoozadeh's low ISU SB score was why he didn't get at least 1 GP invite. That's why he needed (and deserved, IMO) to go to Four Continents as the first alternate.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  25. The Observer

    The Observer New Member

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    Paul Poirier is one of the best male ice dancers in Canada, so it makes sense that after losing some ground last year when he had to find another partner that Skate Canada would want Paul & Piper to have a chance to get going.

    They did well at Nationals, and it was unfortunate that they missed out on Worlds because of the USFSA release situation even though they had qualified to go there by finishing 3rd.
  26. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    His program at Nationals was done to probably the most overused music in the history of skating, and instead of choreography, he just stretched his arms out and skated around. There was *zero* choreo in that program, absolutely nothing. Compare that to this, his Transformers program from earlier in the season, which definitely seemed to have some purpose and originality and was skated with some vigor.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ3YfsuiKZg

    Someone along the way made a conscious decision to scrap a pretty good program and hastily throw together a far inferior Rach program. That is not guidance in the right direction for this talented skater. :shuffle:

    Also, his technical performance was nothing amazing at Nationals and the 3ax and quad attempts don't automatically put him ahead of "ladies content" skaters just because he tries them. He fell on the quad and both axels were botchy and ground out. Then there was the fall on the lutz, a singled jump on the end of a combo, and a slip in the footwork. So all in all, there were only 4 clean triples- loop, lutz, flip, and salchow. I see nothing to wuzrob about this kind of performance and placement.

    In contrast, "ladies content skaters" Johnson had 7 clean triples, Cassar had 5-6, Dyer had 5-6, and Brown also only showed 4, but all had good skating and programs. So yes, all 4 deserved to finish ahead of Josh this time.

    All that said, Josh is clearly a strong skater in general with a lot of potential, and I hope for great things for him in the future. I hope he has learned from this Rach debacle. He is still very young and has time. Either he forgot a lot of the choreo during the performance, or someone along the way thought outstretched arms = good program. Perplexing.

    Between Brown and Farris' SP and LP at Nationals, neither was able to show a clean triple axel or quad jump. I can definitely see why they are going back to JGP, as good as their junior results have been.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  27. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Please tell me this is some kind of joke. If you think that the Transformers program had more choreo, you must be blind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpYlFPImj4

    This is the Rach program as it was skated at its best - at JW. It was gorgeous, fluid, had way more choreography than you're giving it credit for, he connects with the music, he uses it well.

    Compare that with the skating over the top of the Transformers music, not really going with it at all and looking about as disconnected from the music as it was possible to be...about the only good things he did in that program that he didn't do in the Rach one was the stag jump and illusion turn. The layout was appalling, the way those two spins towards the middle were placed was just not good at all. I just cannot conceive how you see this LP as being the superior one. The Rach LP was unquestionably more suited to his style of skating and his personality, and he pulled it off far better. As a whole, it was the superior program, and the Transformers one was the big mistake, IMO.
  28. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    He's keeping the Rach FS for another season, and for the record, if that program is so terrible, why did it score 146+, 71+ for PCS, at JW? The program is actually nice and much better suited to his skating style than the Transformers FS, which IMO overpowered him and was a bit disjointed due to the music cuts.

    In any event, the problem I had with his scores at Nationals was the PCS, his TES for the FS of 69 was deserved and not actually that low. At the JGPF, he skated the same program and made a similar number of mistakes, and his PCS was 69 compared to the 65 at Nationals. Jason Brown also got PCS of 69 at the JGPF for a sterling, clean FS, and got PCS of 75 at Nationals for a 3-fall FS. Skaters like Dornbush, Rippon, Mahbanoozadeh, and Razzano all got PCS inflation at nationals in the form of 5 to 10 points over what they typically get internationally. So honestly, if Josh had received the same treatment, his FS score would have been 137-142 instead of the 132 he got, which honestly would have been reasonable considering the scores handed out to others.
  29. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    Can anybody tell me why the discussion about skaters competing on the Junior Grand Prix is taking place here and not the Junior Grand Prix thread? They haven't been given assignments in Seniors. It's done. Get over it.
    Kasey, AJ Skatefan, oleada and 3 others like this.
  30. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
  31. operagirl

    operagirl Active Member

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    All Year FSC is holding it's club championships this weekend. Leah Keiser (58.24) is ahead of Courtney Hicks (54.34) after the SP.
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    operagirl, I think you meant to post the above in the JGP thread? ;) I've re-posted there for you: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3584388#post3584388

    Please let's not rehash this topic any further in the JGP thread. Thank you.

    ETA: Here's a thread in the Trash Can that can be used instead :p: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=78766&page=49
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2012
  33. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree here. There's a relevant thread for that...
  34. alchemy void

    alchemy void Well-Known Member

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    Where else are we to discuss this KONSPIRACY?!? :cold:
  35. Really

    Really No longer just a "well-known member" Yay!

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    In the Jr Grand Prix thread?
  36. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Or better yet, make a new thread to discuss it so the JGP thread can have actual info instead of just nonsense.
  37. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    It's a much more appropriate thread to rehash it in if it has to be done.
  38. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    I can't believe that we have the first withdrawl already

    Alexandra NAZAROVA / Maxim NIKITIN UKR have been crossed out at Rostelecom Cup

    guess they want to stay junior?
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  39. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Without the GP announcement with this year's alternates rules, it's hard to say who is in the running to replace them. Since they allowed split couples to be in the initial selections, it isn't clear whether they are still high on the replacements list (last year, second after comeback skaters) or on it at all if they were given initial assignments. (Of course, they can be chosen as host picks if they have one at another event.)

    The only split couple in the initial selection is Gilles/Poirier, and they already have two (Skate Canada and Trophee Bompard). Even if they allow couples to be added after the initial GP deadline as they get together, it's pretty late for Crone to find one, since she and Sorensen just split.

    Monko/Khaliavin should be considered comeback skaters for replacements purposes, since they were out of international competition last season, but they already are assigned to Rostelecom Cup. (They didn't take the one-time option to get two in the initial selection.)

    The top-ranked Top 24 SB with one assignment is Tobias/Stagniunas (18 SB, Skate America), followed by Chock/Bates (20 SB), who have China the week before.
  40. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    A comeback skater is one who has finished top 6 at Senior Worlds and did not compete since then. M/K won JUNIOR Worlds 2011 and that is not the same thing at all.
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