2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Assignments

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 21, 2012.

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  1. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    What Ziggy wrote. Also, that is another chance for those skaters to compete somewhere and show their programs to the public before bigger competitions (Euros, 4CC, Worlds), and to some skaters it is already the biggest international competition and the biggest chance to be noticed (by judges, and by the public) that they'll get.
  2. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Just so we're clear, how many skaters is all?
  3. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps all hosts should chip into an "alternate travel fund" after the invites are announced. Then when their alternates travel expenses end up being more than the their invited (anticipated) travel expenses, they can request reimbursement from the fund.

    Not every GP event is going to go over original travel budget by the same amount, but if they share the burden equally, this might give them an incentive to get the best skaters as replacements. They may not go over by much one year, but might be way over another year.

    That said, I'm not really sure why the travel costs are an issue. They no longer have to pay the travel for the withdrawn skater so it should be something of a wash. Obviously some skaters' travel will cost more, but the event might end up saving money on the deal, too.
  4. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    And another reason is that scores from GP count towards season's best score, while scores from other non-major competitions don't. So this is the only chance for skaters who cannot make their country's worlds team to even get on the SB list to participate in GP next year. Example - Biryukova had one event last year, put herself on SB list, got 2 events eventually this year.
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    There are far more benefits to skating in GP than competing in the final:

    *World Standings points, which affect championship start orders
    *Level feedback from ISU technical panels
    *Feedback from international judges, which can show the skater's Fed how the skater is seen outside his or her own country, for better or worse
    *A shot at some prize money
    *Experience
    *Travel expenses paid to a competition
    *Recognition
    *Meeting minimum GP and championship minimum TES, so that the skater's Fed doesn't have to send him/her to a senior B on their dime, which might not happen. (Or for Feds who let the skater pay, saving the skater the cost.)
  6. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    ...and you have to hope the host country feels like inviting you. :lol::rolleyes:

    It would be great if more skaters got two spots, but instead they've reduced the size of the field in recent years. And wasn't the reason for that because they wanted only the best skaters there? So it makes a ton of sense for Mirai to get repeatedly passed up for much lower ranked skaters. :rolleyes:
  7. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I just think the ISU needs to rework the rules so rankings actually matter (I mean, they should matter for more than just starting orders, right?) in GP alternate selection.
  8. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, why did US not pick Mirai for a host pick, that is truly unacceptable... US tried maximise their chances by hoping Mirai will get picked by other countries because of her ranking, though this wasn't guaranteed. This was their game plan increase the number of americans with 2 spots, by passing Mirai over with other lower ranked entrants from US. Other countries are reducing the challenge to their favourites, since they have an option to do this and is not illegal. So part of the fault is with USFSA, not with other countries. :p
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    More spots don't necessarily mean more skaters with two. It could mean more skaters with one and a chance at a GP.
  10. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    This is correct. USFSA is to blame. They were trying to play the numbers and other feds are not playing it with them. If they wanted Mirai to have two spots she would be at Skate America and somewhere else.
  11. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    If you go back a;d read the GP Announcement, there was every reason to believe that Top 24 PB skaters would be given a second (where just one wasn't requested) before any non-host pick out of the Top 24 was chosen.
  12. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Mirai knew she wasn't going to worlds in 2011 and gave one of her best performances at the 4CC. Maybe not worrying about the GPF will ignite her to deliver in her one event and set the stage for nationals and worlds

    Crossing my fingers this is the right thread now :p
  13. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I believe it isn't MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE so much as extremely unlikely for a skater with just one GP event to qualify for GPF.

    If Nagasu wins her only event (15), then 2 other skaters win both their events (30 each), 1 skater wins the gold and silver at her event (28), 2 other skaters win silver at both their events (26 each), then as long as the remaining silver medallist, the 6 bronze medallists and other top 5 finishers don't place top 5 in their other event / do not have another event, it isn't impossible for Nagasu to hang onto 6th on the GPF list, right? [I can think of a million variations to this scenario that would also work]
  14. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Erm, not that I am a huge fan of Flatt or Gao (and I much prefer Mirai), but they did finish ahead of her at Nationals this past year. Its not as if they invited the 10th place finisher from Sectionals ahead of her. That said, there needs to be some kind of standard whereby if you aren't in decent competition shape a few weeks before your event, you get pulled and replaced. I'm really hoping there was some monitoring session recently where Rachael looked significantly better than Skate St. Moritz. If she's just going to single and double everything at SA, there is no point to her being there. And I kinda hope, if she doesn't get picked for a 2nd, Mirai goes out there and wins her GP event with no 2nd event just to show the ISU how jacked up their rules are. And for good measure, maybe Kaetlyn O. can win her only event too. :p
  15. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    But I wonder why the situation for men and ladies are different: Dornbush started with 2 spots because of his INTERNATIONAL results last season, and this was at the expense of Armin who rocked nationally but stunk internationally last seasib.

    Somehow Nagasu who had the better international results (last season like Dornbush) was passed over in favour of Zawadzki who, like Armin, rocked nationally but stunk internationally last season.

    What's the deal there?
  16. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Dornbush wasn't assigned to Skate America, though: he was chosen by the RUS and JPN Federations in the initial selections. Did USFS stop any other country from choosing Nagasu?

    Zawadzki was #25 on last year's Season's Best list, and it was very likely that, under most circumstances, she would have had a great shot for a second off the alternates list. However, it seemed like a guaranteed second spot for Nagasu by the following wording in 7.6 Replacements section of the GP announcement, which seemed surer than Zawadzi having placed just outside the Top 24:

    The second bullet point after split couples on the alternates list is:

    "*Skaters in proper order of top 24 Season's Best would be next"

    and "The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 24 ranked skaters/couples according to their Season's Best."
  17. chika3

    chika3 New Member

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  18. rosewood

    rosewood plants lover

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  19. shah

    shah Well-Known Member

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    the board is going to explode...

    I feel extremely sorry for Mirai, but it's nice to see a veteran Jenna on the roster!
  20. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    WTH... ((Mirai))
  21. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    You just had to figure that McCorkell would eventually get a GP. Good for her :)

    Re Mirai Nagasu: yes, it's pretty strange that someone so high on the SB list can't get a second assignment. But obviously the only way to guarantee yourself two spots is to do well at Worlds, which is really difficult if you skate the way she did at Nationals. And Nagasu was in a better position than skaters from smaller countries, who don't have a chance at a host pick. As others have noted, the USFSA must have figured that someone else would give her one - but Mirai is too big a threat to be attractive to organizers, and too small a draw to make up for it.
  22. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Or...it's expected that Alissa will withdraw from NHK, and Mirai is understood to be the alternate for that competition?
  23. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I hope ISU goes back and takes a hard loook at their alternates rules and rewrites them for next season because this is a disaster. The French are being ridiculous, and it's obvious they don't want Mirai there because it will make their skaters look worse. Good thing that their skaters never even had a chance of medalling in the first place.
  24. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I rather like this perspective. I seriously doubt that French fed intentionally left out Mirai for that reason you mentioned, smarts. Just because people tend to perceive skaters as medal contenders and the others.
  25. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    There is a degree of bad luck in that one of the fields currently experiencing such attrition is one she's already participating in.
  26. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    But, Mirai's only obstacle is the French Fed continually passing on her, right? I mean, if a skater withdraws from any of SC, Cup of Russia or NHK, then Mirai would still have a great shot at a 2d assignment, wouldn't she?

    I assume SA would be out of the question: Flatt or Gao (other Americans) would have to withdraw for SA to replace them w/ Mirai and the competition starts this week which means too little time left on the clock.

    Maybe SC, too?

    I find the NHK theory interesting - Alissa might not be in shape and I don't think the JSF would pass up on Mirai, or at least she'd have a fair shot there
  27. Fridge_Break

    Fridge_Break Well-Known Member

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    This is.. unreal. Poor Mirai! I hope she's able to get a second event somewhere.
  28. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Any skater who is selected to participate in the gp series. I certainly didn't mean every skater in the world lol.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  29. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Mirai's world standing is higher than both Wagner's and Caroline Zhang's, yet they both got two assignments. I guess that doesn't break any of the gp rules, but it is still perplexing.
  30. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    ^^ THIS.
  31. Libertango

    Libertango New Member

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    Mirai's problem is that she is a former TEB medallist.
    The french fed doesn't want their ladies to finish last : both Silete and Meite beat McCorkell at Europeans last year, Silete beat Geblova and J.Helgesson. At worlds she beat Glebova and McCorkell again and Korobeynikova who had an bad event (but now of course Yretha is out because of injury).

    Kostner and Ando were big question marks during the off-season and I think the french fed played on it.
  32. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    I really don't think it's about not wanting the French ladies to finish last - at this late stage I would imagine that arranging transport and the associated costs is going to be a much more important priority. To be honest I can't blame the French Fed for that; unless there is a superstar like Yuna or Mao, TEB is never the best attended event & over the last couple of seasons they have been hit with a disproportionate number of withdrawals & last minute replacements - I remember being really excited by the men's line up when assignments were released last season, but the skaters I got to see when the event actually happened were very different... Belgium to Paris is always going to be easier & cheaper to arrange than California to Paris. It does suck for Mirai, but we're now in an age where skating doesn't generate that much revenue and cost is going to be an important consideration for any federation hosting an event.
  33. wonderlen

    wonderlen New Member

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    How did Takahashi and Hanyu end up in NHK together???? Aren't all world medalist not supposed to meet until GP final??
  34. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Apparently, host picks trump all other considerations, and if Japan had swept the podium, NHK could have all three.

    It's not necessarily the best strategy for getting each into the GPF, but it is meaningful to the Federation and their event.
  35. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    Clearly ISU needs to revise their alternate selection rules. If they want to do it in groups of 5 from the season's best list, that's fine, considering that costs do play a rule. But ALL the skaters from one group of 5 should have to be selected before any from the next group can be (barring maxing out on the number of entries allowed from a single country).
  36. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    Just wow. :( I agree there's still a reasonable chance for Mirai with NHK, but it shouldn't come down to that. It's not right.
  37. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    yes, the only way to bring about change in the rules is to have the current ones exploited & something crazy happen.

    I wasn't convinced before, but now I have to say something is up...Nagasu not being able to get a 2nd event even after all these WDs is a bit perplexing indeed. I say her biggest hope at this point is that Czisny won't be ready for NHK and pulls out with enough time to name an alternate.

    I mean, Gao of all people got a 2nd event...it's probably not far-fetched if Flatt gets a 2nd one, too if there was yet another WD
  38. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    It doesn't matter. Mirai dropped like a rock after her glory days. Hopefully she'll be able to rebuild and return to high standings (like Caroline did after her 4Cs bronze medal win a few months ago). Ashley's and Caroline's ISU championship medals came just in the last season. I believe that accomplishments in the most recent season are of utmost importance in these determinations. We all know that Mirai is lovely and capable of more than what she achieved last season but it was still a terrible season for her (mostly).
  39. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I am of the legitimate believe that this is a kick in the pants for Mirai (another try...obviously, leaving her home from Worlds--twice--didn't work) and the hope is that she will do super-well at CoC and then continue that streak throughout the season.

    That or USFS is moving on from her. :(

    It would be really nice if Mirai could get back to her peak and overcome her nerves. It just depends. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for her.
  40. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be more concerned for Mirai if she kept getting passed up for more events than just TEB. But so far, all the withdrawals have been for TEB or CoC, where she is already competing, so clearly it just means the French Fed either doesn't want a 3rd American lady at that event or doesn't want to invite Mirai because she's medaled at that event before and is likely to place ahead of their own skaters. It's not like a bunch of spots have opened up at other GPs and Mirai's been getting passed over, it's just TEB. So while that sucks for Mirai, I don't think the ISU or USFS is really trying to punish her as some seem to think. I feel like if another spot opens up at another GP that doesn't already have 3 US ladies competing at it or is CoC or TEB, Mirai will be given the spot. Of course, that really only leaves SC, NHK, and COR because SA is this week, but there is still a chance Mirai could get a 2nd event, and if she doesn't, maybe it will work out for the best. So far she seems to be getting back on track with her skating and as per her Twitter, she does not appear to be depressed or upset and rather seems to be enjoying college and getting to live a more "normal 19-year-old" life now that she's training closer to home and not spending all that time in the car.

    Mirai is still a lovely skater, but she didn't deliver last season so it's not shocking to see her only get 1 GP. It seems like she's trying to make her life more balanced between college/normal things and skating, and if that's the case, having 1 GP and no shot to make the final works better for that. If she decides she really wants to make a run at the 2014 Olympic team, then there's still time for her to reshape her priorities, buckle down on training, and show up at Nationals in great form so that she can hopefully compete at 4CC and/or Worlds afterwards and prove she's still in the mix. But if not, she seems to be pretty content with where her life is at right now, and honestly, if she continues to underperform/choke/appear unfocused at big competitions, having other things going on in her life will likely make it easier to deal with and less upsetting for both herself and her fans. I know Mirai is not at Stanford or Harvard like Rachael and Christina, but it's still hard balancing being a student anywhere while being an elite athlete, and clearly, she has interests outside of skating, so as much as some of us really want her to finally reach her potential, at some point I think we maybe have to accept that it might not happen and skating might not be her dominant priority in life anymore. Certainly, she still takes it seriously, but maybe she realizes that even if she focus entirely on skating and push really hard, she still might not achieve what people want or believe she can achieve, and that's the reality. So in light of that, maybe she deems its not worth it to follow such a regimented sleep, training, eating, stretching, etc cycle and to just do the best she can with skating while continuing to go to college and enjoy other things in life.
    mag and (deleted member) like this.
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