Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 21, 2012.
Exactly. And that bothers me.
Like its been said many times. Its not clear from that mess of an announcement if the Top 24 in SB are priority to get their 2nd event or whether they should go directly to pick from the groups of 5. The way the substitutes have been chosen Im inclined to think they are going by the later scenario.
Then for the TEB after Korpi got COC and considering no russian ladies allowed the next 5 would be: Nagasu, Li, Gao, Lacoste, Joshie with Zijun being picked. After her withdraw they chose Gao again over Mirai. Not ideal, but within the frame of convoluted rules.
In the end its all a matter of interpretation so they can turn around the rules as they please as long as its not explicitly forbidden.
The rules state: "The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 24 ranked skaters/couples according to their season's best." They specifically call out this treatment separately from the Top 75 skaters. What we've discussed is that this contradicts the next statement, which is: "All skaters on the alternates list will be grouped in top ranked groups of (5) skaters, out of which the respective Organizing Member may pick one skater/couple for invitation." It does not say that as soon as one is chosen, someone from the next group down replaces the assigned one in the first group.
I don't even like Nagasu's skating, so this isn't wuzrobbed because it was Nagasu who was bypassed. They do have resources who can write what they mean, not the mess they publish. The concept behind the new alternates rules starting last year is to stop host Federations from picking the cheapest and/or weakest competition for their own athletes. The difference between a skater who had the 11th highest score (173.22) and the skaters who had the 24th (157.70) and 30th (152.48) highest scores is significant, especially when compared to Silete (36th, 148.18) and Marrocco (69th, 126.97).
Don't forget that Gao was a host pick at SA so the assignment at TEB is technically her first "real" assignment, so it makes more sense that Gao would get one assignment before Nagasu would get a 2nd.
That was also my point. There's a contradiction between option a) First top 24 SB then the others and option b) All possible alternates get chosen from groups of 5. And by the way the subs have been chose is clearly they are going with option b). and yes you can argue that is according to the rules to move the next in line to the "group of 5" once one skater is assigned because otherwise you will only be left with one skater with no other option by the time the fifth alternated needs to be picked. As long as it does not explicitly forbid it, the federations can get away with it and interpret these crazy rules the more convenient for them.
The ISU's inability or unwillingness to write clear, unambiguous rules is truly remarkable. I'm guessing they must like the flexibility this provides, or they would have sought assistance from someone competent at rule writing or at least posted draft-for-comment versions that can be picked apart before finalization. It truly is not rocket science. And they are clearly not rocket scientists.
Using last year's original assignments, withdrawals, and lists they could have tested the procedure in a group and agreed, and then made sure the rules unambiguously specified what is to happen. The pattern of openings in GP assignments is not amazingly different from year-to-year: Host country skaters become injured or retire, invited non-host country skaters become injured or retire, previously highly ranked skaters who were out with injuries last year come back, and eligible retired skaters exercise the option to return, and then back out. Skaters make qualifying scores in recognized late summer internationals. Pairs/Couples break up and re-form in new pairings. Some host countries do not have three eligible competitors/teams for one or more of the events.
Why is that different than the initial selection, where there is a set order in which the Federations choose, and the last Fed to select gets whichever 1-3 seed, 4-6 seed, 7-9 skater/team doesn't have two, whichever split couple or Top 24 not Top 12 at Worlds who is guaranteed one and doesn't have one, etc.? It's too early to argue that it's too late to get a visa for a replacement skater, etc.
Didnt the announcement come out after the initial gp assignments were announced? I thought they were
making the rules fit whatever gp decisions that were already made
The announcement has been published after the initial selections for at least the last two seasons, but the at least some of the decisions/changes were discussed here before both the initial selection and the document came out.
So they are working through the list of skaters who were eligible for a non-host pick before they get to the sub list? Does that make sense?
No, it makes no sense.
Do they? Because the average ISU publication gives the impression that the ISU's primary objective is obfuscation, not clarity.
They do: they choose not to use them.
Caitlin YANKOWSKAS / Joshua REAGAN are added to the roster for NHK, and Lindsay DAVIS / Mark LADWIG to Skate Canada: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3673
Updated today on the ISU site: 2nd GP assignments for Lindsay Davis/Mark Ladwig (Skate Canada) and Caitlin Yankowskas/Joshua Reagan (NHK) - they have been selected to replace Marley/Brubaker.
ETA: I somehow missed seeing the post right above mine! Looks like Vise/Baldwin (the pair with the highest SB score with 1 GP) were passed over for NHK.
^Excellent opportunities for D/L and Y/R! I've seen promising programs from D/L this summer. But, not too much from Y/R. I hope Y/R can start to 'gel' and bring it this Fall!
Damn OF COURSE I forgot all new teams with a previous Top 10 partner have priority over the regular alternates.. dont like that rule at all..
I think that GP ticket buyers would rather see Caitlin Y over a Baldwin brother.
That makes sense: the top of the alternates list is Split Couples who placed 7-12 at WC's with their previous partners, and Ladwig fills the bill. It also makes sense that they specified 7-12 and applied it to 6th place finisher Yankowskas
Worse this year, since last year, they got one for each qualifying split (aside from host picks) -- Chock/Bates earned one each from previous partnerships -- but this year, they got a shot at initial assignments and, by being at the top of the list, were first in line for a second.
Yes that's not fair at all to the already established teams.
Yrétha Silété underwent knee surgery and reportedly will miss this season -- see the French skating news thread for the press release link: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3669869#post3669869
Her 2 Grand Prix assignments are Cup of China and TEB.
Sui/Han may also miss the Grand Prix season although this has not yet been confirmed officially - see the thread posted in the Trash Can yesterday: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=84792
Their 2 GPs are Cup of China and NHK Trophy.
That's too bad for Silete, wishing her a quick recovery.
Sadly for Nagasu fans, Mirai will probably get passed up yet again because she is already set for Cup of China, and the French Fed will probably replace Silete with another French lady at TEB.
Sad for Silete....
As for replacements.. probably Candice Didier will get another chance at the Grand Prix as a TEB host pick and any of Korobeynikova/Shelepen/Biryukova for COC (Nagasu is already entered at COC).
Didier is still skating but at another rink in the Paris area. She is gonna have to skate well at the Master or they will give that 3rd spot to another country.
I demand a spot for Glebova!
How sad for Yretha. I hope she makes a full recovery!
sad for silete but hoping that korobeynikova goes to COC so I can watch her live!
korobeynikova is such a beautiful, stylish skater .... loved her the first time i saw her
I second the notion!
Knowing French Fed, they'll probably give Silété's spot to another country.
With Silete out there are now two French TBA slots for TEB. I don't think Meite has two assignments, so I imagine she'll get one. But unless someone else does really well at the Masters, I agree that it's likely the FFSG will give the third spot to another country.