2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Assignments

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 21, 2012.

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  1. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The ISU, and the reasoning was that it would help to prevent injuries that young skaters would sustain by attempting senior content in senior competitions. While they haven't stopped juniors from attempting senior content, they haven't been rewarded for it with anything except (depending on the year) a guaranteed GP spot if they become seniors, as the prize money and prestige of winning at the junior level is far less.
     
  2. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    That's the official reasoning, but it's been speculated that the rule was to keep phenoms like Lipinski from winning and immediately retiring. Had Asada been eligible to skate in Torino, she might have won and retired, and the Japanese federation and ISU would have lost a star and all the revenue from ticket sales that comes with it.

    I agree with Macassar88 - if a skater is ready and wants to move up, let them.
     
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Had Lipinski not had a hip issue that made Nagano her only chance, she might not have retired immediately. Hughes was a young Olympic champion, stayed, and had a meh follow-up year.

    So odd to have a policy built around the exception, not the rule.
     
  4. npavel

    npavel Well-Known Member

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    Had Lipinski not trained that hard in junior age, she maight have avoided that injury
     
  5. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Remind me what the deadline is for Evan to make up his mind if he's skating or dancing with the stars this year?
     
  6. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    had Lipinski not trained that hard as a junior, she most likely would have been another talented, yet unknown skater
     
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Age limits didn't stop her from training them. Had she not been able to skate seniors when she did, she still would have been physically broken, and she might have squeezed another year out of her body.

    Weren't Lipinski and Hughes, later, grandfathered in the first place, as would Cohen have been, had she won (or medaled?) at Jr. Worlds?
     
  8. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    Lipinski never medaled at Junior Worlds; she was "grandfathered in" because she competed at Senior Worlds in '96 (before the age limit took effect). If the USFS had given an injury bye to Nicole Bobek in '96, Tara would not have been age eligible for the '97 Worlds.
     
  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    attyfan is correct. The minimum age for ISU Championships and Olympics (15 by the preceding July 1) was passed at the 1996 ISU Congress.

    Back on topic...
    I don't know, but the deadline for entering the 2012-13 U.S. qualifying season is Sept. 1 (even though Lysacek has a bye to Nationals he still has to register online). ETA: If he wants to be considered for the Skate America TBA, I imagine he would have to let USFS know ASAP, if he hasn't already done so.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I see how I wasn't clear: the reason for Cohen's possibly grandfathering should have been in parentheses, as specific to her.
     
  11. Lanna

    Lanna Well-Known Member

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    Top-down imposed age limits can only do so much. Eventually, it comes down to the coaches and the skaters and the parents. The ISU could outright ban 3-3s in junior competition, and it would still come down to coaches.
     
  12. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Exactly. Plus, with changes from puberty, including growth spurts, right around the corner, many 13-15-year-olds with lots of jumps may be hitting their all-time peak, and it's now or never, especially when the Olympics come only every four years.
     
  13. carriecmu0503

    carriecmu0503 Member

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    Is that what you really want for LADIES' figure skating? The way it used to be in gymnastics- hot at 14, washed up at 16? I sure don't. How is that good for the sport? Some 13 year old 70 pound cute little girl comes out one season with a 3-3 that is probably tiny ( think of how little height Tara got on her jumps) because they lack power due to very limited muscle mass.

    These prebubescent little girls can often "do" 3/3 only because of their prepubescent tiny size and lose those jumps as soon as they grow due to poor technique to begin with- Caroline Zhang, anyone? I live how she has now shown how with extremely hard work, she was able to correct many of her technique issues, recover many of her jumps, and now actually has some spring and power in some of those jumps. Yes, she had a rough couple years getting through it, but overall I much prefer the skater she is now to the little girl she once was. Had she been able to go to worlds at 14- let's say she won- do to really think she would have stayed in and worked so hard to fix her technique abd become the skater she is today? I doubt it. Because she was held back, she had to become a lady skater after puberty, worked hard, is seemingly well adjusted and loving the sport. How is that a bad thing?

    Give my a real lady as a champion in the LADIES' division, and let the little girls stay where they belong. At least the new moves on the field patterns in the US now require more power at the novice- senior levels than some pint sized 12 year old girl would normally have and should slow some of these girls down from hitting senior so fast. Give me the beauty, maturity, and sophistication of a real lady any day over some pipsqueak with next to no speed, power, ice coverage, etc who can land her jumps today but may lose them by tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2012
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  14. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Could all this talk about junior ladies and their training be relocated elsewhere, please?? NOthing against the subject but everytime I see this thread bumped I'm hoping for some news about withdrawals or replacements for the grand prix instead.

    :)
     
  15. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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  16. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    So that would mean that there are going to be open spots in China and France.
    I hope one of those goes to Misha Ge.
     
  17. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    Same here!

    :eek: :(
     
  18. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    I want one for Peter Liebers if I have to go on without watching Samuel Contesti and Peter van der Perren from now :mad:
     
  19. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Liebers is way down the alternative list thanks to his subpar last season..

    Next in line will be:
    Sergei Voronov SB 25
    Jorik Hendrickx SB 28
    Andrei Rogozine SB 29
    Artur Dmitriev SB 30
    Jinlin Guan SB 31
    Misha Ge SB 31

    Guan and Dmitriev can't get COC and Hendrickx cant get TEB cause they're already entered there.

    My guess is China will pick Rogozine or Hendrickx (weak contenders against chinese guys) and France will pick Voronov or Dmitriev (they dont have a russian men yet)
     
  20. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    subpar is not the word I would use after the injury he sustained during pre-session preparation.

    Frankly I don't care about the substitute system all that much. I rather they just went by who does best in the international competitions leading up to the SGPs.
     
  21. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Not all of them have the resources to attend international competitions leading up to the SGPs.
     
  22. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Yeah plus the only important ones before the GP starts are Nebelhorn and Finlandia. Not every single skater without a GP event or even a 2nd will be able to participate so I do think is better to have the substitute list to be based on last season's results.
     
  23. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    How does Richard Dornbush have 2 grand prix assignments while Armin Mahbanoozedeh has none. ?????? They screwed Armin out of 4CC and now out of Grand Prix. WTF
     
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  24. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Armin really got screwed over, but let's face it, his bitchy tweets don't help his cause. :shuffle:
     
  25. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Simple. Richard had higher scores and better placements at his GP events this past season, plus his WR is high from his 9th place at Worlds in 2011 and several medals on the JGP. His WR alone guaranteed him one event, and he lucked out and was able to get a second when the likes of Yan, Farris, and Brown (all of who had a GP invite guaranteed due to SB, WR, or both) all ended up staying junior. He tanked at Nationals and 4CC, but Nationals doesn't really play a role in determining GP assignments and the 4CC bomb was after he had already posted 4th and 6th place finishes with scores of 202 and 205 at his GP events. Armin did well at Nationals, but his GP season was horrible, with 8th and 10th place finishes and scores of 185 and 179, and those were his only internationals this past season. He skated well at Nationals, but like I said that doesn't count for much, if he had been given the trip to 4CC like he should have, he would have gotten another shot to improve his ISU SB and based on his form at Nationals, a decent showing there would have likely been enough to earn him a respectable SB and a GP invite. That's really what it comes down to.
     
  26. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Or, if Armin had skated better at the GPs, he might already have had the nod over Dornbush o that 4CC alternate list.
     
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  27. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    link?
     
  28. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I don't know..it was months/years ago.

    Basically, he just pointed out the fact that Dornbush being at 4CCs was a joke and USFS got what they deserved when he bombed the SP.

    Also a few years ago, he equated Laura Lepisto to a "novice level" skater when she won the world bronze with only three triple jumps.
     
  29. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I don't remember that specific tweet ... ETA: OK, you're remembering what he tweeted (and later deleted) about the alternate list for 4CC being a joke (this was in response to Dornbush being named to 4CC as the 1st alternate to replace an injured Jeremy; Armin was the 2nd alternate) -- refer to the posts here: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3470308#post3470308
    I don't recall Armin tweeting anything -- or mentioning Dornbush -- during or after the 4CC Men's SP or FS. (Just wanted to clear that up because people putting words in skaters' mouths can later be (mis)remembered as what they actually said when they never said it.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2012
  30. Garden Kitty

    Garden Kitty Tranquillo

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    IIRC, he also tweeted an apology saying Laura had accomplished more than he had in skating and that he had no business making his original statement.
     
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