2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Assignments

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, May 21, 2012.

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  1. justAfsfan

    justAfsfan New Member

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    I really want to know if Chinese fed choose Song over Yan just because of age?

    If they care so much about face then Yan has much more chance to give China the result than Song.
     
  2. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I must say I am a bit frustrated re: Phaneuf. I mean, she is as inconsistent as Czisny or Korpi, but she has the skating skills to be at the top. But for various reasons just couldn't quite make it happen.

    Shame that she got held back during 03-04 when she could have gone to a world championship, and that she didn't medal at 2010 worlds (her best showing).
     
  3. NMURA

    NMURA Member

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    When I said "face", it means qualifying for WTT over small countries like Italy. I assume the Chinede federation (officials) felt humiliated this year, since they were the only GP host failed to qualify. The best chance to accumulate points is to send Yan to JW and Song to WC. Sending Yan to both is a waste.
     
  4. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    JW doesn't count because China has three skaters in 4CC. It's better to send Han Yan to GP and 4cc if the Chinese federation really cares about WTT
     
  5. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    Why in the friggin world would China give a friggin damn about friggin WTT? Where is this coming from? Unless, I see the Chinese Fed forcing Shen/Zhao to compete at WTT, I am assuming the folks at the Chinese Fed are not idiots.
     
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  6. carriemarie

    carriemarie New Member

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    I don't know if I would compare her to Cziney or Korpi, but Phaneuf has been a mess since her great showing as a young girl in the early 2000's and in 2010, but it was a weak post Olympic field, no disrespect for her, but Cziney and Korpi have pulled things together, even if not consistently for a few years. Cziney had a great season last year and looked good a SA and even TEB. She started faltering at GPF, but her Nationals performance wasn't a travesty. The 4CC's lack of invite concerned me and so did the senior B, but I do honestly think Phaneuf will get the TBA.
     
  7. allezfred

    allezfred Hideous Admin Staff Member

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    Aside from the not insubstantial :bribe:, there is also the fact that team medals will be at stake in Sochi.
     
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    China specifically targeted summer sports with the most available Olympic medals for its summer sports program. It wouldn't be at all a surprise if they looked at WTT as a route to the Olympic team event.
     
  9. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I can see China caring about the Olympic team event, but I don't see a big link between that and keeping Yan Han in JGP. I mean, Yan can totally help the team event by rocking senior worlds next year. That said, I can see them keeping Yan Han's option open by deciding later whether to send him to jr or senior world. If Yan does GP and the new rule passes then Yan has no option but competes for the one Senior world spot. But that is a good option regardless of the team trophy
     
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    It's possible that they look at Men's and think that if the make the final in 2014, given the likely competition -- Canada, France, and Russia, at least -- the odds of beating those men are not great and it won't impact their team strategy so much for Sochi. They could use Sochi as a development tool, and, at this point, they could be looking at Yan Han as their future strategy.

    I never thought I'd see a top 12 dance team from China, but if the Zaretski's can come in 6th, there's always hope.
     
  11. zgr4088

    zgr4088 New Member

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    Wait. Regarding to wtt,I thought 4cc and euro has a higher priority than jw. Will the rule change next season?
     
  12. Gliding on ice

    Gliding on ice New Member

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    Total agree with you that the Chinese Fed should send Yan to GP and 4CC. They do care about WTT, but who knows what else is on their mind :confused:
     
  13. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they want to see how Nan Song will do. But I agree than Han Yan should go senior especially with his upgrades. After all, he's already won junior worlds, so he won't improve as much as he would with different competition.
     
  14. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Do we know if it was the Federation or Yan's coaches/himself that decided to stay on the JGP?

    In any event, at least he will still be challenged on the JGP with the likes of Farris, Brown, Tanaka, etc sticking around another season as well. Honestly though I wish they had all moved up...
     
  15. jjane45

    jjane45 Active Member

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    Based on his weibo, the Chinese twitter, he was holding out hopes for the TBA spot at COC the day GP assignments were released. poor kid was guaranteed a spot!
     
  16. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    Agreed - Brown, Farris and Yan were all DEFINITELY ready to go up.
     
  17. nyrak

    nyrak Active Member

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    I'm looking forward to seeing Nobunari Oda skate in Windsor, remind me again why he didn't compete last year? <bad fan> ;)
     
  18. allezfred

    allezfred Hideous Admin Staff Member

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    Injury as far as I recall. But then again I'm very meh about Oda in general.
     
  19. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    He was extremely musical and interesting back in 2005 with the Super Mario and Zatoichi programs. And then his choreogaphies and musicality kind of went downhill when he went to Morosov. And he never really got it back.

    Did he even get to skate the Sebestyen Brittan programs he got choreographed for this past seasons? Just once at Cup of China?
     
  20. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    2011 Eric Bompard? Fell 3 times in LP. Very bad knee injury.
     
  21. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least they will at least have some honest competition in the form of each other on the JGP this fall :shuffle:.

    I mean, I get they are young, but they were all guaranteed spots, so why not let them move up? FS politiks are so confusing. Yan and Farris especially could have used the exposure to get their names out as favorites to make the 2014 Olympic teams, everyone knows that they are pretty much as good if not better already than their countrymen Nan Song and Adam Rippon and Ross Miner, and have the potential to go much farther in the future than these guys, but maybe that's what their respective federations were afraid of because they are maybe hoping to groom them for 2018 instead? And maybe are worried if they have these young kids beating the guys who are supposed to be the best bets for the 2014 Olympics it will hurt those guys chances of doing well/medaling there? (Not that I expect Song, Rippon, or Miner to medal at the Olympics if they even make it at all, but maybe the federations are delusional and think they have a good shot to...). In any event, Yan and Farris, and Brown if he can get the 3a and hopefully a quad into his arsenal, actually feasibly COULD medal at the Olympics, but it wouldn't happen in 2014 considering their young ages (Hanyu is an exception to this generalization), so I could see the sense in grooming them to break out on the senior scene and really make a splash AFTER the 2014 Olympics (or at least after next season which will be what people are paying attention to going into the Olympics) when many of the guys still competing will have retired and the chances of these guys making a big impact right away will be greater.

    The way I see it, no way will the likes of Takahashi, Oda, Joubert, Abbott, Verner, and likely even Chan if he wins OGM as expected, stick around after Sochi. Then there's a chance skaters like Amodio, Kozuka, Brezina, Song, and Rippon would retire after Sochi, and though it's unlikely, if someone like Hanyu or Fernandez were to medal/win there, there's a chance they could also retire. Of course there will be new talent coming up through the ranks, but you don't see skaters the caliber of Chan, Hanyu, and Takahashi every quadrennial, far from it. Right now, it's hard to make the top 10 at Worlds, if someone like Yan or Farris were to make the Olympic team, finishing in the top 10 would be a big accomplishment, but after the 2014 retirements? They could easily be in the position of being medal contenders leading up to 2018.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  22. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    Haha, can you just see it at JGPF? "...Oh, you again."

    No doubt people would then complain if this year's JGPF and JW podiums had the same three skaters on them this year as last year (whether in the same order is up for conjecture)...

    They may be young, but if they are good enough, I'm of the opinion that holding them back is more likely to damage than help. Joshua wanted to go up - so what's the harm in letting him test his strength against the international seniors? Holding him back is more likely to create doubts, not just in the skater's mind, but in the judges'. The judges are going to see these three again on the Junior circuit and you can bet some of them will be asking the question - what does the Federation know about these skaters that they held them back?

    Joshua, Jason and Han are all victims of federations not wanting to upset established skaters. It's unfair, and it sucks. They should be allowed to pit themselves against the established skaters, and if they beat them, well, tough luck to the established skaters.

    Artur Gachinski is just one year older than Joshua and Jason and already will be in his third Senior season this year. The Federation supported him when he indicated that he was ready, and so he moved up. Was he too young in his first Senior season? He was 17 - the same age Joshua and Jason are now. And he won the World bronze medal. I'm not saying exactly the same thing could happen, but it sure shows that if you support your skater by backing them, good things can happen.
     
  23. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    Also France/TEB where he had an epic meltdown in the free skate. I don't think it was ever made clear he was injured at the time, but you'd kinda almost have to hope so...

    Britten really choreographed the LP? I can see going the jazz route but IMO that program was either awful on its own or Oda was simply unable to interpret it properly. That's extra disappointing. I became a big fan based on his 2005 programs which I loved, but he was never the same after the DUI. :(
     
  24. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Britten's programs, well the music choices to be more exact, were just totally awful and not even Takahashi or Chan could pull them off.

    I really don't understand how program's like that even get made.
     
  25. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    ugh so disappointing same top 3 n JGPF
    the only good about this will be Brown finally getting his 3A

    If he gets that, he is pretty much unbeatable
    Farris is too boring to compete with Brown only Yan can challenge him
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  26. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    Wait...you think FARRIS is boring, but that YAN is "exciting" enough to compete with Brown?

    Someone needs their eyes checked...last time I looked, Farris and Brown were about fifty million steps ahead of Yan in musicality, fluidity, and presentation. Yan's jumps were good, but his artistry really let him down. Farris' artistry was what got him to within half a point of winning the Junior World Championship!

    (But then, I guess you ARE the same person that claimed Artur Gachinski never won anything on the Junior circuit...)
     
  27. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Han (with a triple axel and quad) I see as a victim of his federation and maybe Farris. Brown though is no victim, a skater without a triple axel is well suited into junior skating, in my opinion. There he can practice his triple axel, if he is getting ready for a try-out.

    Well, maybe Chinese Federation will give him much better choreography for coming season? In that case Han will be unbeatable, in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  28. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    I could agree, but your argument would work better if he hadn't come 9th at Senior Nationals last year with three falls, beating certain skaters such as Mroz and Dornbush... :lol:
     
  29. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Right, but what about skaters placed 4-8? Surely they deserve a shot at senior assignments too? Well, Razzano got something, but the others...I think if Brown and Farris get top 5 this year at Nationals and are successful as juniors again internationally, they will get senior GP next season.
     
  30. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    I like Razanno and will be happy to see him at SA. I'm still baffled that Armin didn't get an assignment and Dornbush got 2 (?).
    I have no problem with Brown and Ferris speding one more year at the JGP, considering the large Men's field.
     
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