2012-13 ISU Grand Prix Alternate Selection (continued)

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Since the original thread is now closed, I figured some people would want to continue grumbling about discussing this topic... ;)

    ETA:
    Updating my post #941 from the previous GP thread:

    Ladies on last season's ISU Season Best scores list with 1 GP assignment as of today (Oct. 15): http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/sb2011-12/sbtslto.htm
    [8 Czisny USA (NHK) - requested only 1 due to her injury/surgery]
    11 Nagasu USA (Cup of China)
    38 Flatt USA (Skate America)
    41 Osmond CAN (Skate Canada)
    44 Glebova EST (TEB, selected as alternate)
    46 McCorkell GBR (TEB, selected as alternate)

    Have received a 1st or 2nd GP assignment as an alternate (not host pick):
    14 Korpi FIN (China)
    15 Biryukova RUS (China)
    19 Shelepen RUS (Canada, originally their host pick)
    30 Gao USA (TEB)
    35 Lacoste CAN (China)
    37 J. Helgesson SWE (TEB, originally their host pick)
    44 Glebova EST (TEB)
    46 McCorkell GBR (TEB)

    China replaced Kexin Zhang at Cup of China with host pick Ying CHANG.
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    :D

    From the previous thread:
    Of course it doesn't break any rules; Wagner, by virtue of her 4th place showing at Worlds, is a seeded skater - she has to get two assignments. As for Zhang, I would have been very surprised if an ISU Championship medalist did not get two events.
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Coco mentioned travel costs in the last thread. The closer to the event, the more expensive the plane tickets are.

    French Fed chose McCorkell (who was at the bottom of the current alternate list :wall:) who trains in UK. The other four alternates all train in North America. Jenna was the cheapest to transport by far.

    And of course she's arguably the weakest skater out of the five so she can help ensure the French girls don't finish last. :p

    The French fed did a sensible thing and saved themselves a lot of money.

    ISU needs to alter the rules so they force the feds so pick the top skater from the alternate list. :/

    The idea of a travel expenses fund is a good one as well. All organisers would pool money in so that expenses would be shared evenly.
  4. Jarrett

    Jarrett Well-Known Member

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    Osmond should have gotten it over McCorkell but I guess the same problems comes with picking Osmond as picking Mirai. She will place ahead of the French skaters.

    I am not sure why people even mention cost of travel when Christina Gao was selected. The French are picking the weakest skaters on the list. And if anyone else withdraws closer to the event I doubt they will even fill the spot.
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    When she was selected, I believe that no skaters who train in Europe were on the alternate list.
  6. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    The selections were, leading up to Gao:

    2 August: Kostner removed from CoC and TEB.

    8 August: Top 5 alternates, not including Czisny: Nagasu (11), Korpi (14), Biryukova (15), Korobeynikova (17), Shelepen (19). There were already three Russian Ladies at TEB, and once China picked Korpi, the only one left of the original top five who could attend TEB was Nagasu, and that moved Zijun Li (24) into the top five. Li was originally listed for TEB, which proved to be an error of sorts, because on

    9 August, Li was removed from TEB. This left Nagasu (11), Biryukova (15), Korobeynikova (17), Shelepen (19), and Li (24) as the top group of five, with Li slotting into the top group in place of Korpi. (For the record, I don't have a problem with this, as all six skaters were in the Top 24 PB, and I don't think they necessarily should have to choose in exact order. My issue is where skaters outside the Top 24 are chosen before Top 24 skaters, when there is a Top 24 skater who could take the spot.)

    10 August, Gao (30) was chosen by France without being in the top five alternates. Biryukova, Korobeynikova, and Shelepen couldn't go, because of three Russian Ladies at TEB, and for Li, it would be back-to-back and a trip from Paris to Japan. If there was a set group of five, only Nagasu was left.

    Does that mean there was a temporary group of five for TEB, with Gao, Lacoste, and J. Helgessen moving in with Nagasu and Li? If that's the case, then J. Helgessen, who eventually replaced Silete for TEB on 19 September, trains in Europe. If they decided that they couldn't force France to take the only skater left in the top five, did they add one (Gao), so that France had any choice? If so, then there was not an eligible skater who trained in Europe.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  7. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    This is messed up. The French are definitely playing some type of game because I cannot see why they would pass someone up 3 times now for the same event.

    Do they really think their ladies skaters are that great? Because I don't think they are... (And neither does anyone else around here). The only ladies skaters they produced who were halfway decent were Surya and Laetitia and even then Surya had major issues and Laetitia never medalled at a World Championship and was once called the human zamboni.
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Silete was 1.03 points away from a tenth place finish and a second spot for France at Worlds next year. When a country is vying for an extra spot, every last world ranking point helps in setting up the starting order for championships. That start order could influence whether their skater ended up in 10th or 12th, and this year, Olympic spots are on the line.

    Unless USFS is sure that Czisny won't be ready and everyone is agreeing to save that spot for Nagasu, what the French Fed is doing is the best case scenario for the French Fed. As long as the ISU rules state or could be interpreted as meaning they can do this, why would they choose Nagasu?
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  9. mgobluegirl

    mgobluegirl Well-Known Member

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    Off topic, but Vanessa Gusmeroli did medal at worlds.
  10. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    ^ Oh yeah, I forgot about her. Besides, she was pretty inconsistent, placing 16th the following year anyway.
  11. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Chaffik Besseghier just posted on his Facebook account that he is going to TEB. The french fed probably realized he was the right choise after he beat Ponsart by a lot at French Masters.
  12. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Congratulations to Besseghier!
  13. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Congrats to Chafik! But why did Ponsart WD? Because I think I read something about him having some problems, I hope he's okay

    I still don't understand why there's so much criticism of the FFSG for not picking Nagasu, and considerably less of her own federation that chose not to have her at Skate America. Unless the rules compel a federation to invite specific skaters - and as usual, the ISU document is too confusing for that - the FFSG does not owe Mirai Nagasu a TEB invite.

    Speaking of the French ladies, Silete showed a lot of promise last year - so unfortunate that she suffered such a serious injury in the off-season. I hope she can make a successful comeback.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
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  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    I would make a guess that French Fed swapped Ponsart for Besseghier based on French Masters.
  15. Libertango

    Libertango New Member

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    ITA! Not too long ago french ladies could not even make the cut after the SP at Europeans!!
    Now we have 2 spots at Euros and almost got a second one at Worlds. No, France has never been a "ladies country", we don't produce baby ballerinas but I think that this generation of skaters has the potential to have decent results. I even wish the french fed would have kept that 3rd host pick for Lénaëlle Gilleron-Gorry.

    Congratulation to Chaffik Besseghier! He deserves that spot.
    AFAIK Ponsart injuried himself before the LP at French Masters, I guess he might not be able to recover before TEB.
  16. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    This came up earlier and someone pointed out that since Lénaëlle Gilleron-Gorry competed in the JGP this season, she is ineligible for a senior GP.

    The strange thing is that Ponsart is on the list of French skaters assigned to the Coupe de Nice that was published today. So I've no idea what's going on with the assignments.
  17. toddlj

    toddlj Well-Known Member

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    Agreed that the FFSG does not owe Nagasu an invite. They played within the rules.
    Agreed that the USFSA was welcome to make tactical picks as well. They played within the rules.

    The rules need to be changed.
  18. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    Ponsart has withdrawn from all competitions until the start of December with a torn ligament in his ankle; he's hoping to be back for French Nationals at the earliest.
  19. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    I think the rules need to be changed so that Feds need to pick someone in the original top 5 list. Once everyone in the original top 5 is picked, then they can go on to pick the skaters from 5-10. This business of moving skaters into the top 5 and not picking the number 1 or 2 skater on the alternates list is really what is messed up.
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Reposting from German skating thread:

    Ouch, that is really unfortunate. :(

    I guess their CoR spot will go to Della Monica/Guarise?
  21. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

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    The Italians are already on the roster..maybe the Israeli pair?
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Ah of course. In this case let's hope that the ISU will allow Montalbano/Kransopolski to compete despite narrowly missing the minimum so that the spot will not go to waste.
  23. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    To get all the alternate lists in this thread...

    LADIES
    11 Nagasu USA (China)
    38 Flatt USA (Skate America)
    41 Osmond CAN (Skate Canada)
    44 Glebova EST (TEB)
    46 McCorkell GBR (TEB)

    then:
    47 Bingwa Geng CHN
    50 Sonia Lafuente ESP
    51 Joelle Forte USA

    MEN
    Jorik Hendrickx SB 28
    Andrei Rogozine SB 29
    Artur Dmitriev SB 30
    Misha Ge SB 31
    Zhan Bush SB 32

    then:
    Daisuke Murakami SB 36
    Alexander Majorov SB 37
    Douglas Razzano SB 38


    PAIRS
    34-Zhang/Wang, if they're still together and are healthy
    40-Della Monica/Guarise
    51-Bakirova/Kamianchuk
    Martiusheva/Rogonov
    Montalbano/Krasnopolski (maybe- just below min score)

    DANCE
    Tobias/Stagniunas (18-USA)- injured?
    Chock/Bates (20-CHN)
    Alessandrini/Vaturi (22-USA)
    Zlobina/Sitnikov (23-CAN)
    Ralph/Hill (25-CAN, also 21 WS)

    then:
    Guignard/Fabbri (29-CHN, also 18 WS)
    Heekin-Canedy/Dun (30)
    Pushkash-Guerreiro (32-FRA, 17 WS)
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
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  24. Dramahkween

    Dramahkween Member

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    M/K ARE competing. They arrived in Kent yesterday and are on the same practice session this morning as Pang/Tong and Volosozhar/Trankov.
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thanks, good to know Montalbano/Krasnopolski are being allowed to compete at SA! (their GP debut)

    It's too bad Kemp/King (GBR) are a late withdrawal from SA - I wonder if they will be able to compete next week at Skate Canada?

    ETA that K/K are still listed for SC as of the latest ISU published update on Sept. 17. Vartmann/Van Cleave (GER) were crossed off the Rostelecom Cup pairs roster but they're still listed for NHK Trophy. Also, Zahorski/Miart were officially crossed off the TEB dance roster.
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  26. Dramahkween

    Dramahkween Member

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    I'm so excited for them (M/K)! I hope I can stay awake late enough to watch their GP debut (I'm on the East Coast of the US, so they won't skate until around midnight for me!)
  27. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    So no time for a replacement for the dance slot at Skate America I am guessing with the relatively late withdrawal of the Lithuanians?
    Makes for small events when this happens. But I guess the smallest was Cup of Russia dance 2 years ago. I think by the time it got to Free Dance, there were only 4 teams left. 75% odds of making it on the podium! Only one flight of skaters.
  28. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I imagine M/K are firmly in the "happy to be there" group; anything but last would be an achievement. Good luck to them, though!

    Only if it were random probability, which is not the case in skating. But since only five teams skated in the FS, it is true that 60% of them medalled.
  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Haribobo, thanks for compiling the list.

    It seems that Zhang/Wang are done as they haven't competed at any domestic Chinese competitions. Bakirova/Kamianchuk apparently are dunzo as well.
  30. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    ZHANG Yue apparently retired. WANG Lei (born 1988) recently appeared in a domestic skating show with WANG Xuehan (born 1998), who previously was a singles lady:
    Photo 1 | Photo 2 | Photo 3

    So Z/W becomes W/W now.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
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  31. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot for the info jjane45. So that confirms they are indeed done.
  32. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    It's official :(: Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN were crossed off from NHK Trophy on the ISU site in today's update (Oct. 19) and they have been replaced by Wenting WANG / Yan ZHANG at Cup of China.

    Wang/Zhang placed 4th (147.10) in Sr. Pairs at 2012 Chinese Nationals in Sept. 2011, according to Wikipedia (there are YouTube videos of them from that comp.).

    ETA that Wang/Zhang placed 7th (47.52 + 98.01 = 145.53) in Sr. Pairs at the Chinese National Winter Games in Jan. 2012, according to the competition thread archived here at FSU. Their SP: http://youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=pKllaNiWz-4

    Their most recent result (Chinese National Figure Skating Grand Prix, Sept. 20-21, 2012, Changchun, Jilin Province), as posted in the Chinese competitions thread in Kiss and Cry:
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  33. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully Della Monica/Guarise can get the NHK spot. :)
  34. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Well at least with the WD of S/H, Kexin and Han Yan being kept at juniors, lots of obscure chinese skaters are getting the opportunity to debut internationally and getting Season best scores.. Otherwise they would never stand a chance.
  35. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    very sad, I think the late withdrawal was in a hope that Sui would be well by GP but It seems the 3-5 months off the ice will have to be observed
    any chance of Martiusheva/Rogonov getting one of the open WD slots ?
  36. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    1. I'd love to see Maritusheva/Rogonov get something.

    2. There's a Wang/Zhang and a [former] Zhang/Wang? I need to follow Chinese pairs more closely.
  37. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Its Dan Zhang's former partner...
    Martiusheva/Rogonov has Cup of Russia though I'd live them to get another GP event.
  38. jjane45

    jjane45 New Member

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    ZHANG Dan's former partner ZHANG Hao is currently skating with PENG Cheng, so it's Z/Z to P/Z. I can't keep track of all the ZHANGs and WANGs either, they are some of the most common last names in China. lol


    ZHANG Kexin was assigned to senior GP but she withdrew. And YAN Han did not need the host pick spots had he moved up to senior (kiddo totally thought he would).

    But happy for WANG Yi and ZHANG Ying for getting COC :)
  39. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    maybe I misused the comas but I knew that Kexin withdrew also. And if Yan had moved to senior of course he will have given COC even though he didnt need a host pick.
  40. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Zhang/Wang have competed at 4CC, Worlds and were JGP finalists. ;P
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00010575.htm

    Nope. That is ZHANG Hao and he is now skating with PENG Cheng.

    ZHANG Yan is skating with WANG Wenting and they were 4th at Chinese Nationals.