2012-13 Grand Prix Pre-announcement Thread

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by HisWeirness, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    By popular request ;)

    Feel free to discuss potential 2012-13 Grand Prix assignments, etc. here while we wait for the all powerful 2012-13 GP announcement that will hopefully

    1. Be released BEFORE the assignments come out in June :wall:
    2. Be an easy to understand and interpret document :shuffle:
    :saint:

    In the meantime, I've collected some helpful links and some posts made around FSU on this topic.

    If you'd like to specifically discuss US skaters' assignments to the GP & JGP, USFSA strategy, and/or Skate America TBA picks, there is already a thread up and going on that topic here: 2012-13 US assignments speculation

    Please keep in mind the following:
    The ISU has already updated the World Rankings and Season bests (Men, Ladies, Pairs, Dance) through 2012 Worlds, but they have yet to remove the 2009-10 season points from the ISU World Standings. This will likely happen in the next month (last year it was May 11). Therefore, the ISU World Standings you see today are not the World Standings that will probably be used to determine 2012-13 GP Assignments.

    GP assignments were announced last year on June 27. Here is the 2011-12 GP Thread. The ISU Congress and ISU Council are meeting in Kuala Lumpur in June (June 10-17). So, it'll probably be June when the assignments will be announced.

    The 2012-13 GP announcement and assignments will probably be posted on this website: ISU Grand Prix webpage
    2011-12 Grand Prix Announcement (contains all of the Grand Prix assignment rules)

    Current 2012-13 GP dates/locations

    19 - 21 Oct Skate America TBA, USA
    26 - 28 Oct Skate Canada Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    2 - 4 Nov Cup of China Shanghai, China
    9 - 11 Nov Rostelecom Cup 2012 Moscow, Russia
    16 - 18 Nov Trophee (insert sponsor here), Paris, France
    23 - 25 Nov NHK Trophy Sendai, Japan
    6 - 9 Dec Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final (Combined Juniors and Seniors) Sochi, Russia

    Relevant posts from previous threads:

    Here is the "comeback" skaters provision in the 2011-12 GP Announcement:
    Speculation on changes in 2012-13:
    Also, the 2012 ISU Congress proposals include a proposal from the ISU Council to no longer allow ISU Age 14 (Age 14 as of July 1, 2012) skaters to participate in the senior GP. Instead, skaters would have to be ISU Age 15 to participate, which is the same age required to participate in senior ISU Championships (Euros, 4CCs, Worlds).
  2. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    1 Patrick Chan CAN 4080
    2 Daisuke Takahashi JPN 3476
    3 Yuzuru Hanyu JPN 3088
    4 Michal Brezina CZE 2751
    5 Jeremy Abbott USA 2679
    6 Artur Gachinski RUS 2625
    7 Takahiko Kozuka JPN 2592
    8 Samuel Contesti ITA 2435
    9 Javier Fernandez ESP 2331
    10 Florent Amodio FRA 2219
    11 Adam Rippon USA 2013
    12 Tomas Verner CZE 1936
    13 Kevin Van Der Perren BEL 1893 (retiring?)
    14 Brian Joubert FRA 1859
    15 Alexander Majorov SWE 1851
    16 Denis Ten KAZ 1850
    17 Nobunari Oda JPN 1825
    18 Ross Miner USA 1682
    19 Han Yan CHN 1,667
    20 Richard Dornbush USA 1,547
    21 Takahito Mura JPN 1,337 1,465
    22 Jason Brown USA 1,452
    23 Tatsuki Machida JPN 1442
    24 Nan Song CHN 1,408


    25 Joshua Farris USA 1,317
    26 Jorik Hendrickx BEL 1,275
    27 Keiji Tanaka JPN 1,259
    28 Konstantin Menshov RUS 1,257
    29 Abzal Rakimgaliev KAZ 1,234
    30 Kevin Reynolds CAN 1,228 or 1,229
    31 Peter Liebers 1,205
    32 Daisuke Murakami 1,192
    33 Andrei Rogozine CAN 1,173
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  3. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    For some reason I ended up with 1465.3 for Mura that I put above Brown. I wonder what I did wrong?

    ETA: I also have 1229 for Reynolds and 1204.7 for Peter Liebers.

    ETA: also, Murakami 1191.7
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    I got 1,465.3 the second time I did the math. ;) HisWeirness, could you edit in jlai's corrections/additions when you get a chance, please?

    21 Takahito Mura JPN 1,465
    22 Jason Brown USA 1,452
    23 Tatsuki Machida JPN 1442
    24 Nan Song CHN 1,408
    25 Joshua Farris USA 1,317
    ...
    30 Kevin Reynolds CAN 1,229
    31 Peter Liebers GER 1,205
    32 Daisuke Murakami JPN 1,192
    33 Andrei Rogozine CAN 1,173
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    According to my calculations... corrections welcomed!

    1 Carolina Kostner ITA 4,289 ; SB 2
    2 Akiko Suzuki JPN 3,414 ; SB 5
    3 Alena Leonova RUS 3,244 ; SB 6
    4 Alissa Czisny USA 2,650 ; SB 8
    5 Kiira Korpi FIN 2,547 ; SB 14
    6 Kanako Murakami JPN 2,450 ; SB 10
    7 Viktoria Helgesson SWE 2,431; SB 21
    8 Mao Asada JPN 2,362 ; SB 3
    9 Adelina Sotnikova RUS 2,073 ; SB 13
    10 Elene Gedevanishvili GEO 2,020 ; SB 16
    11 Ksenia Makarova RUS 1,967 ; SB 22
    12 Ashley Wagner USA 1,901 ; SB 1
    13 Mirai Nagasu USA 1,804 ; SB 11
    14 Elizaveta Tuktamysheva RUS 1,694 ; SB 7
    15 Mae Berenice Meité FRA 1,668 ; SB 42
    16 Valentina Marchei ITA 1,659 ; SB 32
    17 Joshi Helgesson SWE 1,584 ; SB 37
    18 Haruka Imai JPN 1,556 ; SB 27
    19 Agnes Zawadzki USA 1553 ; SB 25
    20 Zijun Li CHN 1,549 ; SB 24
    21 Amélie Lacoste CAN 1,537 ; SB 35
    22 Miki Ando JPN 1,488 (status for 2012-13?)
    23 Polina Shelepen RUS 1,382 ; SB 19
    24 Sarah Hecken GER 1,377 ; SB 62
    ---
    25 Cynthia Phaneuf CAN 1,371 ; SB 39

    Season Best scores in Top 24 not listed in updated WS above:
    Julia Lipnitskaia RUS SB 4 ; 1,100 WS points
    Caroline Zhang USA SB 9
    Gracie Gold USA SB 12
    Sofia Biryukova RUS SB 15 ; 707 WS pts
    Polina Korobeynikova RUS SB 17 ; 1,121 WS pts
    Kexin Zhang CHN SB 18 ; 1,072 WS pts
    Satoko Miyahara JPN SB 20 ; 754 WS pts
    Risa Shoji JPN SB 23 ; 1,101 WS pts

    USA ladies updated WS points:
    Caroline Zhang 1,315 (#26?)
    Christina Gao 1,098 ; SB 29
    Rachael Flatt 1,011 ; SB 38
    Vanessa Lam 796 ; SB 26
    Gracie Gold 700
    Samantha Cesario 553 ; SB 28
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  6. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I have Li Ji Jun as having 1549.4

    ETA: Anyway, I did it this way and it was fairly quick: I copied and pasted the whole ISU thing onto a spreadsheet, kept a column for sums and another for a calculated ISU ranking total. Then I copied the calculated totals to a place where I sorted by descending order. So I figured out immediately where the cutoff points are for the 24th skater, then any skater above that score is top 24.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  7. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Will WTT scores count toward a season's best?
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    They did in 2009.
  9. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify the split couple rules (where a split couple has had a high placement in the past, and one member of the team returns with a new partner). Do the new partnerships go to the top of the alternate list? This would affect teams such as Gilles/Poirier, for example.
  10. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    Hmm, which federation actually wants that? Maybe the smaller ones? I imagine the bigger ones with promising juniors would rather push them out early than not. For example, Russia'd surely want Julia Lipnitskaya to skate on the senior GP an extra season before Sochi?
  11. Libertango

    Libertango New Member

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    I just realized that due to P/B medalling (so used to them being 4th), V/M will probably not be at TEB! Anyway either Weaver/Poje or Iliynkh/Katsalapov will be fine for me. Wondering who they'll pick for men beteween Amodio and Joubert (I'm guessing Amodio?)
  12. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I imagine Skate Canada will want W/P... Since I can't imagine V/M asking for three assignments, then yes, I think Tessa and Scott will be visiting Moscow this year, or perhaps Japan.

    Both TEB and NHK have the same problem - two men in the same seeded pool. I would expect the federations to lean on the younger skaters (Hanyu/Amodio) to ask for a third event rather than give up on one of their top guys; I can't imagine either Takahashi or Joubert doing three GPs, and both placed higher at Worlds and are the national champions, so they kind of take precedence.
  13. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to Sylvia for calculating the Ladies Top 24 World Rankings, which would allow for the following ladies to receive 1 GP based on the 11-12 rules:

    Miki Ando, Haruka Imai, Mae Berenice Meite, Joshi Helgesson, Sarah Hecken, Agnes Zawadzki, Amelie Lacoste. (Flatt, Phaneuf, and Yuna Kim drop off the previous list I had above)
  14. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    NHK Trophy is a bit of a conundrum for the JSF because while Takahashi is the biggest crowd puller in Japan (yes bigger than Mao who is the TV ratings draw), the event this year is being hosted in Sendai which is Hanyu's home town.
  15. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    So far the ladies guaranteed to have a spot are taking 43to 49 slots depending on whether top ladies do a third event (eta 45 to 51 if Miyahara doea gp)

    And hosts will want their host picks
    If rules dont change lots of ladies wont qualify for gp just because they wont have a second event

    THE men so far have taken up 38 to 44 slots. Then you add in comebacks and host picks
    BUT then only Brezina did a third gp last time so maybe more guys will end up with a second event
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Phil Hersh's recent article on Gracie Gold and WTT mentioned that the Grand Prix assignments would be on made on May 19, which is a Saturday.

    Can anyone else confirm this date?
  17. Anya

    Anya Member

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    If ISU keeps the option of 3 events for the medalists, here is no way to avoid having two medallists at some of the events. So NHK might as well get both Takahashi and Hanyu.
  18. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

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    At what point does the location for Skate America normally get announced?
  19. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I think that will only happen if Hanyu wants to do three events as I'm fairly sure that Takahashi won't (probably NHK and then one out of Skate America and Skate Canada. Europe :wuzrobbed :fragile: ).
  20. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    :sekret:
  21. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    I wish they'd just drop the 3rd GP option. How many times has the third GP ended up dropped? Given the reduced number of GP entries, and the number of folks who could well medal at the one GP they're entitled to, we could easily see the GP final feature lesser-accomplished skaters because some of the best are locked out of the necessary 2nd GP.
  22. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    There is no such thing as normally. Recently, it was announced sometime between January and March. 5 or 6 years ago, it was announced at least a year in advance. This year, rumors are mid-June. They must be strong-arming someone into taking it.
  23. JasperBoy

    JasperBoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes
  24. NMURA

    NMURA Member

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    That proposal was from the ISU council (which means it's likely to be passed). Any proposals have certain supporting bases. Maybe some (major) federations don't want Lipnitskaya on the senior GP. Even for Russia, it would be better to promote Sotnikova (and Tuktami) for the crucial pre-Olympic season rather than hurting their reputations. Having a world medal is the de facto prerequisite for a Olympic medal.
  25. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    I think they're changing the GP age rule in conjunction with another proposed rule change that will prohibit moving from Senior competitions back to Junior ones. Under current rules, a 14-year-old can skate in the GP but cannot go to Worlds, 4CC or Euros, so JW is the only championship option. Changing the GP age makes the rules uniform.
  26. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    Likely not Skate Canada as Chan would (should) be there.
  27. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    I'd forgotten about that. So Chan does Skate Canada and TEB, Takahashi Skate America and NHK and Hanyu Cup of China and Rostelecom. Who needs to have a meeting to decide the spots anyway? :p
  28. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    hmm and this will take out the privilege of some skaters like S/H who enjoyed doing seniors and juniors for a while, but will this be 100% implemented ?
    Chinquanta has most of the support on this one, but I'm assuming some of the fed like in Russia might make a consideration for Lipnitskaya or would it be too much of a burden just for the sake of a one to be 14 year old.
  29. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I think the only ones who asked for three GPs but only did two were P/B, because of his bronchitis. There's a bonus for doing three, and if you sign up for three but skip the third there's supposed to be a fine.

    Will the FFSG want to have Chan at TEB, seeing as how he was probably the least popular medalist with the audience at Worlds?
  30. Anya

    Anya Member

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    I seriously doubt that FFSG cares about audience reaciton at the Worlds. It might be better for them not to invite Chan, if they believe that Joubert (who presumably will be doing TEB) has better chances of defeating Takahashi or Hanyu, but I doubt that they will factor audience support into their decision.

    As for the age rules, I think the ISU wanted it already at the last Congress, but it did not work for whatever reason (I remember some rumours that Polina Shelepen was not named for the Senior GP two years ago, because the RFSF expected the age rules to change and make her ineligible for it. It might be just a rumour, though, because they were not keen to move her up to Seniors this year, either). It does look better and makes more sense to have just one age of 'majority' than two (or will they still keep 14 years as a requirement for B-list competitions?).

    The RFSF will surely be against it, with Lipnitskaya being the new start and everything. Does any other NGB have a stake in the matter? Gold is old enough. What about Japanese girls?
  31. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  32. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    I want Chan to be at TEB and mix in Sharapova saying "Allez up your f****** ass" with his "Elegie" exhibition...:p
    HisWeirness and (deleted member) like this.
  33. NMURA

    NMURA Member

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    I don't think Russia will SURELY be against it. Their #1 priority of the next season is to win a world medal of the best possible value. Lipnitskaya's presence can put unnecessary pressure on Russian "senior" ladies.

    Miyahara is surely going to compete as a junior. The JSF seems still wanting to favor Murakami. Miyahara's emergence is not welcome, to be honest. Shoji has probably finished, I'm afraid.
  34. feraina

    feraina Active Member

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    In particular, I think they probably want to promote Tukt and Sotnikova, who will finally be eligible for senior championships. Having one more young lady to share the limelight with them may not be their best strategy. Younger girls like Elena Radionova won't make Sochi anyway, so maybe they don't mind keeping them back a year.

    I can't think of that many amazing young skaters in the U.S. who'd benefit from going up to senior GP's early. Caroline won two GP medals and qualified for GPF when she was 14, but then her career didn't exactly thrive after that. Among the younger girls, only Karen Chen seems particularly precocious. But she will be a good position for 2018 even if she goes up to senior at 15.

    China kept Zijun Li back by a year anyway, though she would've qualified for a GP last year, given her bronze at JGPF. It probably was good for her to consolidate her 2A-3T and 3-3's in the low-pressure junior events.

    Sui/Han really benefitted from GP's last season though, as in China they have to overcome a lot of political obstacles to get expensive costumes, foreign choreographers, and other resources -- proving their worth on the GP really helped them getting somewhere with the Chinese federation.

    Shoji is probably going the way of Yuki Nishino, who never recovered. :slinkaway Shoji has real technical issues with her jumps, and puberty seems to be really hurting her.
  35. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Shoji was injured most of this season. She has technique and UR issues, but she can maybe bounce back. And actually, she can do GP next season and probably get 2, her SB is in the top 24 to get her one, then she could get the host spot at NHK. I don't think a few bad competitions while she was injured are a clear indication that she's "finished". Anyways, I'm not sure puberty is even the issue, because she looks about the same size as last season when she was doing quite well. I still think she has more promise than Imai, and Miyahara's jumps are miniscule to the point that I think they will be very problematic once she grows. She like doesn't even jump, more like spins around 3 times on the ice.

    Also Zijun Li is not eligible by age for Worlds and 4CC until next season anyway (she is the same age as Liza) so it's not shocking she did JGP again. This way she can move up to seniors fully in the upcoming season, rather than doing senior GP then JW and having to train 2 long programs all season long.
  36. Andrey aka Pushkin

    Andrey aka Pushkin Brezina's Nemesis

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    Sorry, I don't agree. I want Takahashi at either TEB or CoR.
  37. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I always thought it was ridiculous that skaters not old enough to skate at Senior Worlds or the Olympics could nevertheless skate on the Senior GP. The whole BS of protecting the younger girls was just that BS. Caroline Zhang skated on the GP when she was only 14 how was that protecting her from burning out? I say make the rule if you turn 15 before Oct 1st of the previous year you can compete at Worlds and the Olympics. Push the deadline forward a few months so more of these girls can compete. Adelina was hosed for being born on July 1st.
  38. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    That.

    It's good to give the best a chance to earn money but it's even more important to spread the wealth and give more skaters the opportunity to compete IMO.
  39. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    It makes sense to have one age standard for all senior competitions (either that or get rid of age restrictions in seniors altogether). I just hope they will save major changes like that until after the Olympic season. A skater like Lipnitskaya, who has been competing senior at Nationals successfully for years, is operating under the impression that she'll have two senior GP seasons under her belt before the Olympics. If the rules suddenly change, that would totally throw off her Olympic plans and she won't get any senior experience until just a few months before the Olympics.
  40. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Thank god! It's about time they did something like that. Frankly, I've always thought it's criminal that Denis Ten is still allowed to go to Junior Worlds. He's been to the Olympics, FFS.

    Once a Senior, always a Senior IMO. You shouldn't be able to just pick and choose.

    If I read it right, someone like Artur Gachinski (DOB 13/08/1993) would still be eligible for Junior Worlds next season. The very fact that Artur, who is a silver medallist at Europeans and a bronze medallist at Senior Worlds, would be able to go back to Junior Worlds is somewhat laughable. Can you imagine if he'd decided to get in an extra competition between Euros and Worlds this year and gone to Minsk?

    I'm glad they're changing the rule.