2011 Worlds proves Ando can beat Kim if both are clean or similar errors

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Andofanatic, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    At the 2011 Worlds Ando made 1 mistake and landed 5 triples with no triple-triple and came from behind to pass Kim who made 1 mistake and landed 5 triples and a triple-triple. That just shows if both skated cleanly with the same jumps Ando would win easily, and considering Ando can do 7 triples (and sometimes a quad) vs only 6 for Kim it would be an even easier win if both skated cleanly with all they can do.
     
  2. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

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    Oh, give it a rest. :rolleyes:
     
  3. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    What I said are facts. At the 2011 Worlds Ando made 1 big mistake in the long program and landed only 5 triples and 0 triple-triples and beat by a couple points Kim who made 1 mistake in the long program and landed 5 triples with a triple-triple. Ando skated equally unclean with less content and won, and Ando is capable of more content, 7 triples vs 6 for Kim, so both skating the same proportion to their best would win even more easily. Kim is just lucky Ando is so inconsistent and that is where most of her wins and success comes from, except for when she skates out of her mind like the 2010 Olympics.
     
  4. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    I think Mao is still Yuna's rival (because she has 3Asada)

    But she's not.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2013
  5. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Has a new jump been named after Mao? ;)
     
  6. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    What you said is a selection of facts.

    a) You don't mention that Kim actually made two errors in the long - she popped two jumps into singles (the flip, and the double toe). Had she landed a double toe instead of a single

    b) You also don't mention that Kim had a major error in the short (on her triple lutz), whereas Ando went clean.

    c) To assert that Ando had less content is odd. Her base value was 4.99 points higher. Why do you think she had less content (COP wise).
     
  7. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    It took a very uninspiring Kim and a very out of form Asada for the politiking for Ando to work. Ando never deserved 7s and 8s for PCS - certainly not in 2011.
     
  8. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Please stop to tell a lie, A. ;) Just no. :shuffle:
     
  9. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    probably if ando return, she would have many rivals - not only yuna.
    Why do you always have a rivalry ando with only Yuna, comparing, and attack her?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  10. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Well-Known Member

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    Double Post
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  11. RunnersHigh

    RunnersHigh Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, they met 11 times in the senior circuit and ANDO won only 2 times.
    In 2007, Ando won Yuna injured, fell twice in 3Lzs and rewarded for her 3S+2T with 0 points in Free Skate and in 2011, Ando won Yuna never been to any competition during the season.

    Whatever it was great for Ando to take the throne, 2 time world champion.

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]SKATER[/TD]
    [TD="colspan: 7"]
    Yuna KIM
    [/TD]
    [TD="colspan: 7"]
    Miki ANDO​
    [/TD]
    [TD="colspan: 2"]
    DIFF
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]EVENT[/TD]
    [TD]SP
    3s
    [/TD]
    [TD]FS
    3s
    [/TD]
    [TD]Tot
    3s
    [/TD]
    [TD]JUMP
    TES
    [/TD]
    [TD]SP[/TD]
    [TD]FS[/TD]
    [TD]TSS[/TD]
    [TD]SP
    3s
    [/TD]
    [TD]FS
    3s
    [/TD]
    [TD]Tot
    3s
    [/TD]
    [TD]JUMP
    TES
    [/TD]
    [TD]SP[/TD]
    [TD]FS[/TD]
    [TD]TSS[/TD]
    [TD]JUMP
    TES
    [/TD]
    [TD]TSS[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2006 TEB[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]64.14[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.22[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]119.32[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]184.54[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]59.08 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.02 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]109.42 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]174.44 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.06 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10.1 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2006 GPF[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]62.92[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.06[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]119.14[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]184.20[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]38.10 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]67.52 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]89.80 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]157.32 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]24.82 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]26.9 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2007 Worlds[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]56.56[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]71.95[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]114.19[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]186.14[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]71.57 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]67.98 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]127.11 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]195.09 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-15.01 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-9.0 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2008 SA[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]67.21[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]69.50[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]123.95[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]193.45[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]59.50 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]57.80 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]110.62 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]168.42 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.71 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]25.0 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2008 CoC[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]61.81[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]63.64[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]128.11[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]191.75[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]10[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]53.82 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]59.30 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]111.58 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]170.88 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.99 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]20.9 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2008 GPF[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]57.29[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.94[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]120.41[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]186.35[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]49.51 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]55.44 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]102.81 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]158.25 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7.78 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]28.1 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2009 Worlds[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]68.79[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]76.12[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]131.59[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]207.71[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]60.24 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]64.12 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]126.26 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]190.38 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.55 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]17.3 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2009 GPF[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]56.10[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.64[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]123.22[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]188.86[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]58.22 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]66.20 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]119.74 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]185.94 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-2.12[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.9 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2010 OG[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]80.50[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]78.50[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]150.06[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]228.56[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]59.10 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]64.76 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]124.10 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]188.86 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]21.40 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]39.7 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2010 Worlds[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]63.61[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]60.30[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]130.49[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]190.79[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]3[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]9[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]55.00 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]55.78 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]122.04 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]177.82 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.61 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]13.0 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]2011 Worlds[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]58.47[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.91[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]128.59[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]194.50[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]7[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.29 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]65.58 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]130.21 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]195.79 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-6.82 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]-1.3 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]AVERAGE[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.73[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.55[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.27[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]63.40[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]67.98 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]126.28 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]194.26 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]2.73[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]5.64[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]8.36[/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]57.22 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]62.68 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]115.79 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]178.47 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]6.18 [/TD]
    [TD="align: right"]15.79 [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    * This image could give you more clear look on the table above.

    As you see above, Ando averagely tried more triples in FS than Yuna (0.09 :lol:).
    But it didn't result in Ando's win because she got lots of '<'s. For example, in 2008 GPF Ando tried 4S and 5 triples in Free Skate but she got 5 '<'s and ranked 5th out of 6 skaters and as above, Yuna's TES on Jumps are 6.18 higher than Ando in average.

    The gap between JUMP TES DIFF and TSS Diff also explains how many triples is something but not everything in figure skating.
    One more interesting point is their Jump TES are about 32% of their TSS. (Yuna: 32.6%, Ando: 32.1%)


    Andofanatic these are the facts!
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  12. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    come on, i'm such a big ando-fan too, but your facts are kind of wobbly andofanatic.

    ando has sometimes a quad? show me when she last tried?
    2009 gpf? she even didn't go for 3-3 in 2010 and 2011 free skates.
    her jump content isn't as good in 2004-2007, but as a skater she has developed much.

    i think we should be lucky if we see her back in competition and if she will be able to get in competitve shape again. if then (and saddly i cannot imagine that right now) she is able to go to the olympics and somehow will get a medal this should be a final triumph.

    kim on form is a better skater, that's it
     
  13. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Ando has the motivation to compete any more. She "wanted" to compete last season but "couldn't" because she did not have a coach. Now, how difficult is it to find a coach? I think there is plenty of coaches in Japan who would want to teach someone who twice won worlds so all she needed was ask. Alternatively, she could have asked her skating federation to arrange it for her, if she feels so shy in her adult age to approach someone.

    Besides her motivation, Kim has been off from competing, came back and shown that she still has the jumps and can win worlds. Ando has been off competition but did not come back (yet). So who do you think is better at this particular moment? If Ando was at the level that she would be competitive at this moment, she would have attended Japanese nationals, placed well so that she would be sent to worlds and then beat Kim at worlds. She didn't...
     
  14. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    deleted post
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  15. Dyu

    Dyu New Member

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    uh, leave Yuna alone.
     
  16. Jenny81

    Jenny81 Member

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    Yuna vs Mao
    Yuna vs Joannie
    Yuna vs Ando
    Yuna vs Mirai
    Yuna vs Kostner
    Yuna vs Osmond
    Yuna vs Gold
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Yuna vs Kwan
    Yuna vs Witt
    Yuna vs Yamaguchi
    .
    .
    .
    blah blah blah :argue:
    sigh....

    Leave Yuna alone!!!
     
    os168 and (deleted member) like this.