2011-12 Season ISU Technical Requirements and Changes

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by HisWeirness, Apr 5, 2011.

  1. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    The ISU is beginning the annual process of updating technical requirements and issuing communications for the 2011-12 season. I am starting this thread so we can gather all of these communications here and discuss them.

    Communication 1670 includes the 2011-12 Short Dance and Free Dance required elements.

    Key items:

    Senior Short Dance
    Junior Short Dance
    Also
    Short Dance choreography rule update (new provisions are underlined):
    Required Short Dance Elements

    Senior Pattern
    Junior Pattern
    For both Senior and Junior Patterns:
    Additional required SD elements:
    Required Free Dance Elements (Senior)
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
  2. smartblade

    smartblade New Member

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    Senior: one (1) Not Touching Circular Step Sequence (SD requirement)
    that's exciting!
  3. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: Thank goodness, this is what killed so many of the short dances for me this year.

    Already having high hopes for slutty costume voids! :rollin:
  4. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    ^ I love that the wango will not return next season. Most were :blah:

    I am also very excited for slutty latin dance costumes. Bring on the neon orange, ruffles and deep V-necks! :D :grope:
  5. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Indeed:D

    I dont like that the two patterns of the rhumba can be skated at different moments and not one after the other.. it will hurt the ability to compare the teams against each other.

    I do like that they realized we got tons of "copy & paste" SDs this season and they are demanding a coherent piece of choreography this time.

    Overall Im surprised they went again with popurri of latin rhythms after the huge failure that was the 2005-2006 season with that splatfest of epic proportions knowns as Torino's OD.
  6. Libertango

    Libertango New Member

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    I hate latin programs but I remember that it had a lot of success with non-skating fans and non-ice dance fans!
  7. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    True...but it gave us this!

    OD Memories.
  8. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    That's true I remember watching the Torino Olympics OD with thre girls who have never seen any Figure Skating in their lives, and they all loved it, specially B&A because it was to a Jennifer Lopez song! :lol: At least it was a very entertaining night for sure with all the drama of Babs Death Stare and Dubreuils tragic fall.

    But lets face it: anglo, nordic, slavic skaters suck big time at trying to carry the latin flow and portraying the hotness vibe that is required for these dances, they all end up looking horribly stiff and contrived.
  9. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    Oh well I'm pretty convinced Elena Ilinykh and Nikita Katsalapov will rock these dances.
  10. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    You're generalizing too much.

    I think P&B will be able to bring the sexy. I&K have the chemistry for it too.

    Ones I can't see bringing it are like (just a few examples), D&W, C&P, B&S...I'm undecided on V&M. They rely on the young love stuff so much, I've forgotten anything else they've done.
  11. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Some of the hottest Latin dances I can remember were performed by Russian couples. Usova/Zhulin's and Grishuk/Platov's rhumbas are my favorites.
  12. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    :wideeyes:

    You remind me of John Martin.

    :scream:
  13. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    Navka wasn't bad either.
    And Anissina's Flamenco was amazing.
  14. Hanna

    Hanna Wheeeeeeeeeee

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    I'm ready for the Latin dances again! :cheer: :smokin:

    Enough with waltzes & tangos (especially combined :yikes:) for a while! :scream:
  15. Lanna

    Lanna Well-Known Member

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    Oh, no, not again. :wall: :wall: :wall:
  16. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I must commend HisWeirness not only for making an excellent informative post as usual, but for the creative use of greamlins. I never thought B&S' final pose from Meditation would work for rhumba, but it really does!!! :lol:

    Good thing Navka retired well before these rules against stopping in one place for too long were put into effect. :p

    The way I am reading it, the seniors can choose from the 5 dances, but they must do a rhumba pattern. There's no requirement that they actually choose the rhumba though. So they can skate a samba and mambo and fit the rhumba pattern in there somewhere. :confused: Why didn't they make it like juniors where they must skate cha-cha alone or cha-cha + other rhythm of choice?
    HisWeirness and (deleted member) like this.
  17. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, its a general statement, and of course there are always exceptions that break the rule but the general idea remains the same IMO.. I think Riazanova can do it, I remember enjoyin a lot her latin FD with Guerreiro back in 2008.

    Well if you consider those really hot I wont argue with that, but thats hardly the definition of hotness for me.


    Flamenco isn't the type of rythm we're talking here really.. dont think it qualifies as "latin" at least not in the tropical sense this OD is aiming for.

    The only ones who nailed the latin/tropical character in Torino were Tanith, Grushina and Sinead Kerr IMHO. All the other girls were a total mess. Navka was hilarious in those first seconds with all that ridiculous-looking ass shaking:yikes:, but then she kinda pulled it off thanks mostly to her awesome charisma.
  18. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Because the Rhumba pattern dance is usually skated to music that's faster than a typical rhumba, so the steps would really go better or at least just as well with music intended for one of the other dances named?
    RunnersHigh and (deleted member) like this.
  19. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting HisWeirness. Can always count on you to keep us up to date.

    I am glad they have picked a theme and stuck to it. Really didn't like how this season the dances have seemed so disjointed.

    Agree about slutty dance costumes. Latin is the best for those.
  20. flyingsit

    flyingsit Well-Known Member

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    Both Madisons (Chock and Hubbell) must be looking forward to an extra-slutty season!
  21. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    What is a "Not Touching Circular Step Sequence"? This isn't the typical circular step sequence, is it, because that one uses holds?
  22. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    It is a normal circular step sequence, the couple are just not in dance hold like they currently are.
  23. literaryfreak

    literaryfreak Well-Known Member

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    Has this element been used before? I don't think I've ever seen it. I'm trying to imagine it in my mind and it seems more difficult than a no touching midline sequence - to maintain a circular path, weaving in and out, without using each other for support.
  24. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    Not sure. Will certainly make it interesting.
  25. Allen

    Allen New Member

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    No Yankee Polka :lynch:

    I didn't want the Rhumba earlier, but for some reason, I feel like it would be fun now. Like everyone else, I'm really happy about the rule that the rhythms have to make sense with other.
  26. Allen

    Allen New Member

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    I just hope they don't go over the top with that Rhumba hip action. :scream:
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  27. nashvilledancer

    nashvilledancer New Member

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    Yeah, the ballroom rumba is done to much slower music than the ice dance rumba. Even American Rhythm is slower, let alone International Latin, which is slower still.
  28. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    I think I/K will have a very hot SD next season :grope:
  29. TanithandBenFan

    TanithandBenFan U.S. Ice Dance Junkie

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    I've seen pairs teams do circular footwork. My favorite was Inoue/Baldwin's from their 2006 SP. I looked for it on YouTube but no luck. I think it will be a nice change to the SD's next year!
  30. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    This sequence is for brother-sister teams...
  31. shah

    shah Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
  32. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    :cheer: for the not touching CiSS! Something new, eh?
  33. sailornyanko

    sailornyanko New Member

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    No news on whether they will finally remove the copy & paste spiral sequences that have plagued ladies LP's for almost 10 years??? I'm sick of having to see them.

    Will the Ina Bauer and Spread Eagle get a GOP score? Will the COP award bonus points to the few skaters that can actually do opposite direction jumps the way they currently award opposite spins? Heck, will the Walley and Toe Walley be counted as real jumps and be given a difficulty score?
  34. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Spiral sequences have been changed already. Didn't you notice?

    As for the other questions, the answer is a resounding NO to all of them.

    Opposite direction jumps definitely should be rewarded. But some jumps have to remain non-listed so they can be used as transitions, especially in sequences.
  35. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I think it is amazing they have come up with the dance stuff now after the delays last season.

    Plus I am sure they have had bigger things to worry about - like Worlds.
  36. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    The spiral sequence was removed from the Ladies SP for the 2010-11 season, and the spiral sequence in the free skate only receives + or - GOE, no levels.

    I agree with AW that it is very good that the ISU has released the ice dance required elements already (in April). Last spring the ISU was able to release the free dance requirements (on May 4) before the 2010 ISU Congress, but the short dance requirements were not released until after the ISU Congress in June.
  37. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    And Russian ballroom Latin dancers are :smokin:

    I'm looking forward to Diva Nora!
  38. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    Posted elsewhere today:
    Side-by-side comparison of changes from 1611 to 1672 :COP:

    Scale of Values
    2T base value reduced from 1.4 to 1.3.
    2S base value reduced from 1.4 to 1.3.

    Level 2 step sequence increased from 2.3 to 2.6.
    Positive GOE (+3,+2,+1) for Level 4 regular step sequences and Choreo Spirals and Choreo Step Sequences decreased from 3, 2, 1 points to 2.1, 1.4, 0.7 points.

    Pairs throws:
    2TTh base value reduced from 2.6 to 2.5.
    2STh base value reduced from 2.6 to 2.5.
    2LoTh base value reduced from 3.0 to 2.8.


    GOE

    Singles GOE Changes:
    new -> Steps, does not correspond to the music: -1 to -2 :cheer:
    Steps. listed jumps with more than half rev. included: -1 (listed is new, so I assume you can't do a half-loop in steps now, since half-loop is now a listed jump)

    Spin, -2 to -3 GOE (must be minus) for less than required positions in the SP has been removed. Not meeting the positions requirement for spins with change of foot in the SP will make the spin have no level and no value now instead of reducing GOE. In the FS the same spin would be called Level 1. Spin combinations with change of foot in the SP and FS will be Level 1 if all three basic positions are not met.

    Pairs GOE Changes:
    Previously: Twists, lady not caught at the waist was -2, final GOE must be in the minuses
    Now: Twists, lady not caught at the waist is -1 to -2 GOE, final GOE not restricted

    Solo and Pairs Spin, -2 to -3 GOE (must be minus) for less than required positions in the SP has been removed. Not meeting the positions requirement will make the spin be called Level 1 instead of reducing GOE.

    new -> Steps, does not correspond to the music: -1 to -2 :cheer:
    Steps. listed jumps with more than half rev. included: -1


    Levels features changes

    Steps: the criteria to satisfy the use of upper body movements level feature in singles and pairs step sequences has been reduced from a combined total of 2/3 to 1/2 of the step sequence pattern.

    Spins: clear change of edge feature now counts for layback and Biellmann positions as well.

    Singles-only
    Steps:
    2 different combinations of 3 difficult turns quickly executed within the sequence (Feature #5). Previous requirement for #5 was "combination of difficult turns quickly executed in both directions, at least twice within the sequence."
    * Two combinations of difficult turns are considered to be the same (i.e. NOT different) if they consist of the same turns done in the same order and on the same edges.
    Difficult turns include rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles and loops (loops new for 2011-12).

    Spins:
    Flying entry spin variation now only counts as a feature to increase Level once per program (in the first spin where the feature is attempted). Normal flying camel entry does not count a a Level feature (but counts as an attempt at FCSp).

    8 revolutions without change in position/foot/variation/edge can count as a feature only once per spin now, not "twice (if repeated on another foot)" as in 2010-11. [Feature #8].

    Change of position backwards-sideways or reverse must be clear in the layback spin to meet Feature #9.

    Pairs-only
    Lifts:
    Previous Feature #7 (landing variation) removed; now combined with Feature #1 (take-off variation). Seniors no longer can meet 2 level features with a difficult take-off + difficult landing in the same lift.

    Feature #1 now is:
    Seniors: difficult variation of the take-off and/or difficult landing variety
    Juniors: Simple variation of the take-off and/or simple landing variety (each counts as a feature)

    Simple landing: a different landing foot is not automatically considered a simple landing variety.
    Difficult take-off: inside axel take-off in 5ALi and 5SLi is considered as a difficult take-off variation.

    Pair Spins:
    execution of 4 difficult variations (each variation of each partner counted separately) will result in 2 Level features independent on the order of these variations if at least 2 of these variations are executed in basic positions and each partner has at least 1 variation. (new requirement underlined)

    Death Spirals:
    Feature #1 (Difficult entry and/or exit): Difficult entry to a death spiral should be on the curve and on the leg of the death spiral and while acquiring the actual death spiral position there should be a continuous and not too prolonged movement to this position.

    If during the Death Spiral Lady’s head never reaches the level of her skating knee, the Death Spiral will have no value. :judge:
    Previous rule: Any part of the Death Spiral with a higher lady’s or man’s position is not valid for Level features #3 (change of arm hold) and #4 (additional revolutions).
    FYI: requirements for lady's death spiral "low" position:
    for inside Death Spirals – the lowest hip or buttock and head should not be higher than her skating knee;
    for outside Death Spirals – head should not be higher than her skating knee and bodyline between knee of skating leg and head should be flat or shallow arch.



    And, the final remark for the second year in a row (a.k.a. the Ziggy :p rule):
    Last edited: May 5, 2011
  39. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

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    Yikes! I anticipate a lot of "Forward inside death spiral, no level" this year (thank goodness it's a FiDs year, though; this will be painful in a BoDS year). I'm hoping for a Technical Notification modifying this for Juvenile and Intermediate...

    This seems like the fewest changes between seasons that I can recall. I regret the loss of "2 8s" (the ability to get credit for two features by doing 8 revolutions on each foot), because that was a wonderful features for lower level skaters and encourages the development of strength and spinning skills that are more important/essential than the ability to pull one's foot over one's head.
  40. Dave of the North

    Dave of the North Well-Known Member

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    If the lady breaks the guy's nose on the way down, does that increase or decrease the GOE?:p