2011-12 Grand Prix Pre-announcement Thread

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by HisWeirness, May 4, 2011.

  1. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    Since it's too early for an official 2011-12 Grand Prix thread because the 2011-12 GP announcement has not been released already, I thought we could begin the GP assignments discussion here.

    The ISU has already updated the World Rankings and Season bests through 2011 Worlds, but they have yet to remove the 2008-09 season points from the ISU World Standings.

    The GP assignments should be announced a day or two after the ISU GP Selection Meeting. Last year (2010) the meeting was June 11-12 and the GP assignments were posted on the ISU website around 9am Central Euro time on June 13. Someone with the ISU meeting schedule should know when this meeting is scheduled for 2011. ;)

    The ISU should post the "wiped" (i.e. with the 2008-09 season removed) ISU World Standings within a week or so. These wiped world standings are the ones historically used for GP assignments in the past.


    Helpful Links:
    2010-11 Grand Prix Thread
    ISU Grand Prix Webpage
    2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement (contains assignment procedure)
    ISU World Standings
    ISU Seasons World Ranking (not historically used to determine GP assignments)
    2010-11 Season Best Total Scores: Men | Ladies | Pairs | Dance

    Discussion of 2011-12 Grand Prix competition sites and dates is here:
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77157

    There has been some discussion about changes to the assignment process for 2011-12. Some relevant posts from other threads:

    Top 12 finishers at Worlds (historically guaranteed 2 GP spots, top 6 are seeded)

    Men: Chan, Kozuka, Gachinski, Brezina, Takahashi, Oda (seeded)
    Amodio, Joubert, Dornbush, Fernandez, Miner, Verner

    Ladies: Ando, Kim, Kostner, Leonova, Czisny, Asada (seeded)
    Makarova, Murakami, Korpi, Gedevanishvili, Hecken, Flatt

    Pairs: Sav/Szo, Vol/Tra, Pang/Tong, Kav/Smi, Baz/Lar, Yan/Cou (seeded)
    Duh/Rad, M-T/Mos, Tak/Tran, Ber/Hot, Evo/Lad, Hau/Wen

    Dance: Dav/Whi, Vir/Moir, Shibs, Pec/Bou, Wea/Poje, Bob/Sol (seeded)
    Ili/Kat, Cap/Lan, Cho/Zue, Cro/Poi, Zhi/Gaz, Car/Jon

    Top 3 at Junior Grand Prix Final and Jr. Worlds (historically guaranteed 1 spot)
    JGPF
    Men: Dornbush (* has 2 spot guarantee from Worlds), Yan, Rogozine
    Ladies: Sotnikova, Tuktamisheva, Li
    Pairs: Takahashi/Tran (* has 2 spot guarantee from Worlds), Stolbova/Klimov, Yu/Jin
    Dance: Monko/Khaliavin, Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Stepanova/Bukin

    Jr. Worlds
    Men: Rogozine (* also JGPF), Tanaka, Majorov
    Ladies: Sotnikova (* also JGPF), Tuktamisheva (* also JGPF), Zawadzki
    Pairs: Sui/Han, Stolbova/Klimov (* also JGPF), Takahashi/Tran (* 2 spots from Worlds)
    Dance: Monko/Khaliavin (* also JGPF), Pushkash/Guerreiro, Lichtman/Copely

    Also, historically skaters with an ISU World Standing placement of 1-24 (after 2010-11 season) and skaters with season best scores in the top 24 (for 2010-11) who are not in the top 24 in the World Standings are guaranteed 1 event if they are not guaranteed spot(s) already from Worlds/JGPF/Jr. Worlds.

    Hoping for some more rumors about the changes to the assignment process. :sekret: It's difficult to project with certainty which skaters will get assignments when the rules may change and several skaters are considering retirement or taking the fall season off.
    LynnW and (deleted member) like this.
  2. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    Additional relevant posts from the Yu-Na GP thread:

  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Reposting my edited rant from the GP dates thread. This time with a bit less foam coming out of my mouth. :p

    So according to what Sandra Persch has reported, not only will there be less spots, the top skaters will now be able to do one extra event, further taking away the opportunity from skaters lower down the rankings to gain very valuable competition experience.

    Instead of promoting skating worldwide, ISU is turning it into a more and more exclusive sport.

    Under the proposed 2/3 of season's best score minimum score for GP, Kadlecova/Bidar who are a very promising young team and have been giving good performances all season will not be eligible to compete at the GP.

    What is the benefit of that exactly?

    As Oleda said:
    And consider how relatively overmarked the best performances usually are.

    By that I mean: if the judges know that someone has clearly given a best performance, then they go overboard with the marks, especially the PCS.

    Savchenko/Szolkowy, Chan and Davis/White all gave great performances at Worlds but judging an average skater against the marks they were given is just ridiculous.

    And there are some Worlds where the winning performance is nothing special and some where it's clearly head and shoulders above the rest (the current Worlds are the second kind).

    I hope that the proposed minimum score concerns GP entry only, because if it's for all ISU Competitions, then it's going to kill the sport.

    The substitution change sounds great and definitely makes sense. It should enable skaters who performed well in the current season to get invited.

    If that was in place this season, teams like Zhiganshina/Gazsi and Walden/Edwards could have had a chance (well depending on the minimum score). It will also create a further incentive for skaters to do B-Internationals.

    I am very worried about the direction ISU is taking.

    If I was an average level skater, the prospects of not being able to do the GP and taking part in humiliating Preliminary Round that won't even get broadcast anywhere would surely motivate me to sacrifice a huge part of my life and my health to daily, gruelling practices. :rolleyes:

    Let's pray that the minimum score proposal doesn't pass.
  4. sandra_persch

    sandra_persch Well-Known Member

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    The German Federation has already published the announcement and forms for Nebelhorn Trophy. Its never been that early and makes me wonder if they are expecting huge numbers of entries

    http://www.eislauf-union.de/NebelhornTrophy2011.html

    The substitution rule should make a huge difference especially to skaters injured one season and coming back the next.

    If I remember correctly the article said that the ISU was very disappointed with the level of skating in the SGP. But with the approach they are taking with the JGPs too there isn´t much there for skaters to develop on. often skaters from smaller federations learn soo much at international events but if ISU closes the door in their faces they can never experience what it is like to train with the best skaters live they do an Euros and Worlds.

    Here´s hoping that Cheltzie does the JGP in Australia if she can´t do a senior b abroad hoping for a SGP.
    I really hope that they come up with something like .... if you qualified for the free skate you don´t need the minimum score of make the last finalists score the minimum score

    One thing that I am still not sure about is, is if the minimum score requirement applies to the host countries too or not.

    also doing the maths ... you got the top 6 doing 3 SGPs each gives you 3 at each SGP ... adding 3 host picks will in some cases get you down to 4 spots for other countries ... with the 6 hosts gifting one another the slots for their skaters other federations have to send their skaters to the Senior Bs to get them on top of the substitute list. here´s hoping that USA, CAN, FRA, RUS, JPN and CHN don´t send too many skaters to the Senior Bs.
    Last edited: May 4, 2011
  5. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Why finally making a good rule about the way the subsitutes are chosen when at the same time you are reducing the spots and letting the seeded skaters take 3 events, its completely unnecesary now.

    I wish figure skating had enough of a fan base worldwide for it to support a B World League, composed of all the main Senior B competitions, for all the "in development" skaters. The Grand Prix is surely taking the upper elitist approach, which is not a bad thing per se (It was always meant to be as a way of increasing the cash for the big six in the first place and a vehicle of getting more competitions and exposure for the big names) but it sure hurts lots of second tiers.
  6. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Odd that they're reverting to the 3-event format (ie, skaters can skate in 3 GPs, rather than 2). Just makes other skaters not have an opportunity to gain valuable international experience, and it potentially exhausts those skaters who skate 3 events (and costs a lot of $$, too!).
  7. barbk

    barbk Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least more incentive for the US and Canada to start offering some Senior B competitions; maybe we'll see some in Asia as well.
  8. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    I will be curious to see who decides to skate in three events. I somehow don't see too many skaters doing it. It might be expensive, tiring, and disrupt preparation process.
  9. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    I would not want to skate 3 events if I didn't have to. The only reason to skate 3 events would be if you could count your best 2 and didn't have to designate which counted before the season began. However, doing that isn't fair and it will result in some skaters dropping out if they place well enough in their first two events to guarantee a spot in the GPF.
  10. acraven

    acraven Active Member

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    There's also the matter of prize money...
  11. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    How much is it, do you know? Just curious..
  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    For reference you can look up the prize money amounts (1st-5th place) published in last year's "2010-11 Grand Prix Announcement" (link posted in post #1).

    A rumor (still unconfirmed) I heard during US Nationals is that the JGP Final medalists would not be guaranteed 1 GP like in the past.
  13. Sedge

    Sedge Active Member

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    If a seeded couple retires ( Yankowskas Coughlin) does the 7th place team ( Duhamel Radford) become seeded..or do they go with only 5 seeds?
  14. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    Thank you!
  15. Sayana_mnk

    Sayana_mnk Member

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    If rules regarding seeded skaters are kept the same, then the 7th place team can become seeded only if there is no other team that has achieved a season's best score equal or greater to the top six teams at worlds. In this case, though, since there is no other team, Duhamel and Radford will now be seeded on the Grand Prix.
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thanks for posting the link. For those who haven't clicked on it, the 2011 Nebelhorn dates are September 21-24.
  17. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    The "wiped" ISU World Standings are now available, as posted by euterpe in GSD.

    Under the 2010-11 GP assignment rules, skaters in the Top 24 of the World Standings were guaranteed at least 1 GP assignment.

    Top 24 in each discipline, including WS points and those with 2 GP guarantees from Worlds (W) [under 2010-11 rules]:

    Men
    1 3458 Daisuke TAKAHASHI JPN - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    2 3321 Patrick CHAN CAN - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    3 3020 Nobunari ODA JPN - 2 GP (W6), seeded
    4 2931 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    5 2713 Artur GACHINSKI RUS - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    6 2663 Michal BREZINA CZE - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    7 2644 Samuel CONTESTI ITA
    8 2603 Jeremy ABBOTT USA
    9 2590 Tomas VERNER CZE - 2 GP (W12)
    10 2212 Brian JOUBERT FRA - 2 GP (W8)
    11 2147 Adam RIPPON USA
    12 2140 Florent AMODIO FRA - 2 GP (W7)
    13 2031 Yuzuru HANYU JPN
    14 2014 Alban PREAUBERT FRA
    15 1970 Alexander MAJOROV SWE
    16 1930 Kevin VAN DER PERREN BEL
    17 1876 Adrian SCHULTHEISS SWE
    18 1680 Evan LYSACEK USA
    19 1652 Kevin REYNOLDS CAN
    20 1489 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP - 2 GP (W10)
    21 1476 Shawn SAWYER CAN - retired
    22 1471 Richard DORNBUSH USA - 2 GP (W9)
    23 1429 Andrei ROGOZINE CAN
    24 1395 Brandon MROZ USA

    Also with guarantee from Worlds:
    37 1005 Ross MINER USA - 2 GP (W11)

    Ladies
    1 3522 Miki ANDO JPN - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    2 3435 Carolina KOSTNER ITA - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    3 3327 Akiko SUZUKI JPN
    4 2961 Kiira KORPI FIN - 2 GP (W9)
    5 2771 Alena LEONOVA RUS - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    6 2760 Yuna KIM KOR - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    7 2618 Alissa CZISNY USA - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    8 2567 Kanako MURAKAMI JPN - 2 GP (W8)
    9 2484 Mao ASADA JPN - 2 GP (W6), seeded
    10 2347 Rachael FLATT USA - 2 GP (W12)
    11 2332 Mirai NAGASU USA
    12 2307 Ksenia MAKAROVA RUS - 2 GP (W7)
    13 1945 Cynthia PHANEUF CAN
    14 1848 Viktoria HELGESSON SWE
    15 1842 Valentina MARCHEI ITA
    16 1736 Haruka IMAI JPN
    17 1704 Elene GEDEVANISHVILI GEO - 2 GP (W10)
    18 1638 Joshi HELGESSON SWE
    19 1574 Amelie LACOSTE CAN
    20 1398 Polina SHELEPEN RUS
    21 1328 Joannie ROCHETTE CAN
    22 1323 Christina GAO USA
    23 1248 Laura LEPISTÖ FIN
    23 1248 Agnes ZAWADZKI USA

    Also with guarantee from Worlds:
    26 1244 Sarah HECKEN GER - 2 GP (W11)

    Pairs
    1 4065 Aliona SAVCHENKO / Robin SZOLKOWY GER - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    2 3716 Qing PANG / Jian TONG CHN - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    3 2575 Yuko KAVAGUTI / Alexander SMIRNOV RUS - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    4 2528 Vera BAZAROVA / Yuri LARIONOV RUS - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    5 2278 Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN CHN - 2 GP likely based on season best score
    6 2077 Caitlin YANKOWSKAS / John COUGHLIN USA - split, W6
    7 2009 Narumi TAKAHASHI / Mervin TRAN JPN - 2 GP (W9)
    8 2002 Maylin HAUSCH / Daniel WENDE GER - 2 GP (W12)
    9 1855 Stefania BERTON / Ondrej HOTAREK ITA - 2 GP (W10)
    10 1824 Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Dylan MOSCOVITCH CAN - 2 GP (W8)
    11 1776 Amanda EVORA / Mark LADWIG USA - 2 GP (W11)
    12 1599 Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS
    13 1417 Stacey KEMP / David KING GBR
    14 1415 Paige LAWRENCE / Rudi SWIEGERS CAN
    15 1388 Caydee DENNEY / Jeremy BARRETT USA - split
    16 1362 Huibo DONG / Yiming WU CHN
    17 1330 Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR / Maxim TRANKOV RUS - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    18 1257 Yue ZHANG / Lei WANG CHN
    19 1221 Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD CAN - 2 GP likely (W7), seeded likely
    20 1188 Mylene BRODEUR / John MATTATALL CAN - retired
    21 1170 Dan ZHANG / Hao ZHANG CHN
    22 1166 Nicole DELLA MONICA / Yannick KOCON ITA - split
    22 1166 Lubov ILIUSHECHKINA / Nodari MAISURADZE RUS
    24 1162 Klara KADLECOVA / Petr BIDAR CZE


    Dance
    1 4171 Meryl DAVIS / Charlie WHITE USA - 2 GP (W1), seeded
    2 3814 Nathalie PECHALAT / Fabian BOURZAT FRA - 2 GP (W4), seeded
    3 2732 Vanessa CRONE / Paul POIRIER CAN - 2 GP (W10)
    4 2704 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN - 2 GP (W2), seeded
    5 2652 Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE CAN - 2 GP (W5), seeded
    6 2549 Ekaterina BOBROVA / Dmitri SOLOVIEV RUS - 2 GP (W6), seeded
    7 2426 Sinead KERR / John KERR GBR - retired
    8 2414 Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI USA - 2 GP (W3), seeded
    9 2385 Nora HOFFMANN / Maxim ZAVOZIN HUN
    10 2278 Anna CAPPELLINI / Luca LANOTTE ITA - 2 GP (W8)
    11 2045 Pernelle CARRON / Lloyd JONES FRA - 2 GP (W12)
    12 2000 Elena ILINYKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV RUS - 2 GP (W7)
    13 1895 Xintong HUANG / Xun ZHENG CHN
    14 1884 Madison CHOCK / Greg ZUERLEIN USA - 2 GP (W9)
    15 1804 Ksenia MONKO / Kirill KHALIAVIN RUS
    16 1782 Federica FAIELLA / Massimo SCALI ITA
    17 1778 Lucie MYSLIVECKOVA / Matej NOVAK CZE
    18 1771 Ekaterina RIAZANOVA / Ilia TKACHENKO RUS
    19 1498 Ekaterina PUSHKASH / Jonathan GUERREIRO RUS
    20 1412 Kristina GORSHKOVA / Vitali BUTIKOV RUS
    21 1404 Penny COOMES / Nicholas BUCKLAND GBR
    22 1222 Cathy REED / Chris REED JPN
    23 1193 Madison HUBBELL / Keiffer HUBBELL USA - split
    24 1133 Kharis RALPH / Asher HILL CAN

    Also with guarantee from Worlds:
    26 1063 Nelli ZHIGANSHINA / Alexander GAZSI GER - 2 GP (W11)
    Lanna and (deleted member) like this.
  18. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Wow! It's surprising too see the scores change once they got rid of the 2008-2009 season.
  19. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    Skaters also guaranteed at least 1 GP event from the top 24 Season Best Score List and not already mentioned:

    Men:
    19 212.71 Ryan BRADLEY USA retired
    20 211.17 Armin MAHBANOOZADEH USA
    21 209.99 Denis TEN KAZ
    24 205.59 Peter LIEBERS GER

    Ladies:
    9 178.97 Adelina SOTNIKOVA RUS
    12 172.78 Elizaveta TUKTAMISHEVA RUS
    13 170.60 Sarah MEIER SUI retired
    17 167.02 Ashley WAGNER USA
    19 161.75 Yasmin SIRAJ USA likely going back to JGP
    22 156.41 Vanessa LAM USA likely going back to JGP

    Pairs:
    12 169.95 Katarina GERBOLDT / Alexander ENBERT RUS
    17 159.85 Marissa CASTELLI / Simon SHNAPIR USA
    22 145.78 Britney SIMPSON / Nathan MILLER USA split
    24 144.46 Mary Beth MARLEY / Rockne BRUBAKER USA

    Dance:
    18 138.16 Alexandra PAUL / Mitchell ISLAM CAN ISU
    21 134.62 Victoria SINITSINA / Ruslan ZHIGANSHIN RUS likely going back to JGP
    22 133.36 Charlotte LICHTMAN / Dean COPELY USA
    24 131.01 Isabella TOBIAS / Deividas STAGNIUNAS LTU
    Last edited: May 11, 2011
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  20. rhumba

    rhumba New Member

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    Do they take away the skaters/teams that retire or split, and move up the rank of Season Best Score?
  21. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Not guaranteed a spot, but eligible for the alternates list are any skater who was part of a pair or dance team that was eligible for a spot under the criteria in the last two seasons and who plans to compete in 2011-12 with a new partner.

    This includes:

    Yankowskas
    Coughlin
    Denney
    Barrett
    della Monica
    Kocon
    Simpson
    Miller
    Murkhortova (from 2010)
    Hay (from 2010)
    Dube (from 2010)
    Davison (from 2010)

    M. Hubbell
    K. Hubbell
    Domnina (from 2010)
    Shabalin (from 2010)
    A. Zaretsky (from 2010)
    R. Zaretsky (from 2010)


    I don't have printouts of last year's season's bests to know if Morand/Dorsaz and/or Sulej/Chruscinski had a top 24 season's best last year; if they did, they'd qualify for one if any teamed up with new partners. Same with Mallory/Rand, Navarro/Bommentre, and Rubleva/Schefer, not that it's likely that any of them (except maybe Mallory) or either of the Kerrs or Brodeur/Mattatal teaming up with new partners.

    The way the rule is set up, any skater or team who was seeded 1-6 in any World Championship but did not skate last season can skate GP, if he/she/they agree to do two GPs. Most likely to take advantage of this are:

    Plushenko, assuming he is reinstated in time for the GP selection
    Zhang/Zhang

    Duhamel/Radford should get the seeded spot no longer needed by Yankowskas/Coughlin, because they have the highest season's best score of all of the couples not in the top 6 in Moscow and their score at 4C's (181.79) surpassed #6 Y/C's 175.94 at Worlds. Were Pang/Tong to retire, then Sui/Han, with 179.04 from GPF, would be seeded as well.

    I assume any of the new partnerships and returning skaters would have provisional picks, pending a minimum score before their GP event.
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
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  22. HisWeirness

    HisWeirness Yay, new board!

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    The ISU has released the schedule of international competitions for the 2011-12 season.

    Grand Prix Events:
    October 21-23, Skate America, Ontario, California USA
    October 27-30, Skate Canada, Mississauga, Ontario CAN
    November 4-6, Cup of China, Shanghai, China
    November 11-13, NHK Trophy, Sapporo, Japan
    November 18-20, Trophee Eric Bompard, Paris, France
    November 25-27, Cup of Russia, Moscow, Russia
    December 8-11, Grand Prix Final, Quebec City, Quebec, Canada
  23. icellist

    icellist New Member

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    dying to know whether caroline zhang ha a chance for a comeback!
    this headcase version of her makes her so much more likable, i'm caring less about her bitchy face and rooting more for the underdog XD
  24. taz'smum

    taz'smum Active Member

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    If a skater is invited to a senior grand prix, do they still have to have a seasons best of the minimum score of 123.58 or is it waived because they are invited?
  25. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    This is what I heard abou the coming GP rules changes.

    1. Only 1-12 Worlds finishers are guaranted events (1-6 may do 3 if they want).
    2. Wording for Junior Worlds medalists, JGPF medalists, 1-24 SB and 1-24 WS is different now. Last year they were guaranteed min 1 event. Now it says they'll get 1 event provided there are open spots.

    3. 1-6 WC finishers may do 3 events. 2 best results will count for the Final. By June 1 they are supposed to inform the ISU if they plan to do 3 or 2 events. If somebody opted for 3, and got 3 but will decide later to withdraw (even for serious medical reasons, as everybody withdraws for medical reasons) from the 3rd event, there will be prize money deduction for the previous 2 events. On the contrary-doing 3 events will add bonus to the prize money.

    4. Host countries can still eneter anybody for home events, reardless of the ratings, SB, etc.

    All this is in line with the ISU policy that Senior GP is not a development program but a commercial series for top skaters to attract TV. They were really disappointed last year when really weak skaters were invited as substitutes.
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
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  26. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    If a skater is below the minimum-he can not be nvited.
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Thanks, SUN. Are you hearing that the GP selection meeting will take place sometime in late June?
  28. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    June 24-26 in Paris.
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  29. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    If every 1-6 skater/team does three, and every 7-12 skater/team does two, that means they will take 30 (3*6 + 2*6) of a total of 48 (8*6) or 60 (10*6) spots. How could there not be open spots for the 1-24 SB, 1-24 WS, JGPF and Jr. World medalists, especially since the 1-12 skaters have half of the 1-24 SB's in any season and a chunk of the 1-24 WS, with another few 1-24 WS taken by teams that have retired or split?

    What is the point of this?
  30. SUN

    SUN New Member

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    You forgot about the home entries-some of them can be without any ratings and will take several spots.

    But IMO the point is that it could be the case that not all from these categories will get 1 event, so now they can not guarantee this.
  31. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Host nations will use some slots for skaters that don't qualify. Theoretically (though it won't happen), Canada could expend it's three pairs slots on Dube/Wolfe, Hole/Johnson, and Fake/New Team. Duhamel/Radford and Moore-Towers/Moscovitch still get two GPs, but they take those slots elsewhere.

    Realistically, it just makes it easier for the ISU. They don't have to guarantee but they can follow through if possible.
  32. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Thanks, SUN. Very much appreciated.
  33. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I also left out the provision that skaters who missed last season, but were seeded in the past, can return if they do 2 GPs. I've assumed this in my calculations, and also that part of any agreement reinstating Plushenko will be that he agrees to 2 GPs. You are right that it is possible that there would not be enough spots left to guarantee spots to all 1-24 SB/WS and JGPF/JW skaters/teams, due to a combination of the decrease in fields and the ability of 1-6 to do three GPs.

    I apologize for not being able to get my head around who is not age-eligible for juniors and seniors, and some of the above may not be age-eligible for seniors or may remain in juniors.

    These are the skaters/teams who would have been guaranteed a spot under last year's rules, but not under the new ones:

    Men
    Rippon: SB, WS
    Hanyu: SB, WS
    Abbott: SB, WS
    Reynolds: SB, WS
    Mroz: SB, WS
    Van der Perren: SB, WS
    Mahbanoozadeh: SB
    Ten: SB
    Preaubert: SB, WS
    Contesti: SB
    Liebers: SB
    Tanaka: WS
    Majorov: SB, JW
    Rogozine: WS, JW, JGPF
    Yan: JGPF
    Schultheiss: WS

    Retired/Not Skating: Bradley, Sawyer, Lysacek​

    Total: 16

    Available spots: 60
    If 1-6 use 3 and 7-12 use 2: (30)
    Plushenko (2)

    The additional federation choices are anywhere from (9), if the feds take all eight 1-12 skaters and RUS takes Plushenko for CoR, to (18), if the feds take only other skaters, leaving 10-19 open spots.

    Ladies
    Nagasu: SB, WS
    Sotnikova: SB, JGPF, JW
    Suzuki: SB, WS
    Tuktamisheva: SB, JW, JGPF
    Gao: SB, WS
    Wagner: SB
    Pfaneuf: SB, WS
    Siraj: SB
    Zadwazski: SB, WS, JW
    Lacoste: SB
    Lam: SB
    Helgesson, V: WS
    Marchei: WS
    Imai: WS
    Helgesson, J: WS
    Shelepen: WS
    Lepisto: WS
    Li: WS

    Retired/Not Skating: Meier, Rochette​

    Total: 18

    Available spots: 60
    If 1-6 use 3 and 7-12 use 2: (30)
    Lepisto (2)

    The additional federation choices are anywhere from (11), if the feds take all seven 1-12 skaters, to (18), if the feds take only other skaters, or anywhere from 10-17 spots.

    Pairs
    Iliushechkina/Maisuradze: SB, WS
    Lawrence/Swiegers: SB, WS
    Gerbolt/Enbert: SB
    Castelli/Shnapir: SB
    Stolbova/Klimov: SB, WS, JGPF, JW
    Zhang/Wang: SB, WS
    Marley/Brubaker: SB
    Kemp/King: WS
    Dong/Wu: WS
    Kadlecova/Bidar: WS
    Yu/Jun: JGPF

    Retired/Split: Brodeur/Mattatall, Denney/Barrett, Simpson/Miller, Della-Monica/Kocon​

    Sui/Han will be 1-12, since their SB not only beat Y/C's, but everyone else in the 7-12 slots except Duhamel/Radford, who get Y/C's seeded spot. Zhang/Zhang are guaranteed 2 if they return and agree to 2.

    Total: 11

    Available spots: 48
    If 1-6 use 3 and 7-12 use 2: (30)
    Zhang/Zhang (2)

    The additional federation choices are anywhere from (8), if the feds take all nine 1-12 skaters and CHN chooses Zhang/Zhang for COC, to (18), if the feds take only other skaters, or anywhere from -2 to 8 spots.

    It is technically possible for there to be too many pairs guaranteed spots if every federation were to choose pairs that did not place 1-12 and the Zhangs return, but I think there's a proviso for them to expand the field, if necessary, and no one in the bucket would get any.


    Ice/Dance
    Monko/Khvaliavin: SB, WS, JW, JGPF
    Riazanova/Tkachenko: SB, WS
    Faiella/Scali: SB, WS
    Hoffmann/Zavozin: SB, WS
    Paul/Islam: SB
    Pukash/Guerriero: SB, WS, JW
    Myslicekova/Novak: SB, WS
    Sinistsina/Zhiganshin: SB, JGPF
    Lichtman/Copely: SB, JW
    Reed/Reed: SB, WS
    Tobias/Stagniunas: SB
    Stepanov/Bukin: JGPF
    Ralph/Hill: WS
    Huang/Zheng: WS
    Goshkova/Butikov: WS (split?)
    Coomes/Buckland: WS

    Retired/Split: Kerr/Kerr, Hubbells​

    Total: 16

    Available spots: 48
    If 1-6 use 3 and 7-12 use 2: (30)

    The Federation choices are anywhere from (9), if the feds take all nine 1-12 skaters, to (18), if the feds take only other skaters, or anywhere from 0-9 spots.
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  34. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

    Joined:
    May 24, 2003
    Messages:
    19,356
    (The last one was long with lots of data, so I'm splitting this into a second post. I hope that's okay.)

    Questions:

    Is there a pecking order for filling out the rosters? For example, if there are 12 open spots for dance after the federation picks, do the federations have to choose the top teams and leave out the bottom four (with some kinds of hierarchy)? Or can they choose Coomes/Buckland to make far less competition for their skaters? (There's a pecking order for substitutes this year.)

    After assigning fed picks and guaranteed spots, do they get to assign a skater/team from the eligible list to two spots, while others get none?

    If a skater/team is not chosen from the eligible list, does the skater/team then have to establish a season's World Ranking to get on the substitute list? If so, either placement on the eligible list is meaningless after the initial invitations, because it is co-mingled with anyone in the top 75 SB (or other adjusted number) with a minimum score, or the 1-24 WS/SB list + JW/JGPF medalist becomes the only eligible list, unless they come up with more new criteria.

    Will next year's season's World Ranking only consider Senior B's, or also qualifying events?

    If 1-6 are assigned to three, then how do they decide which three events get the extra 1-3 seeds, vs. protecting their own top skaters with the extra 4-6 seeds? Will this be distributed by discipline, i.e. each Fed has to take two 1-3 seeds for two of the four disciplines? What if the skater/team turns down the third event?


    Comments:

    Since the only way to qualify for enough competitions to make the GPF is to place 1-12 at last year's Worlds or to take the year off (voluntarily or through injury), this 1. screws skaters from countries with great depth -- Russia has five pairs in the top 12 SB scores -- and 2. gives the skaters incentive to take the year off, especially if they are on the fence.

    In the past few years, almost every skater/team who's been guaranteed one spot has gotten two in the initial round, before any substitutions, which gave them all a chance to qualify for GPF. This year, with the number of spots down and the top six having the option for a third -- in the past, top three only were assigned three events -- it's hard to see who but the 1-12 and returning skaters will get an opportunity to compete in two events and qualify for GPF, when there might not be enough slots to go around to give them one. As far as selection strategy is concerned, isn't it, for example, in someone's best interest for skaters outside the 1-12/returning, like Faiella/Scali or Abbott, to get one GP and not be eligible for GPF -- especially now that 1-6 skaters with three get to keep their best two scores -- or even none, if there's no hierarchy for selection, and the number of open spots after guaranteed/returning spots have been filled?

    The host federations have to decide whether choose otherwise ineligible skaters and/or 1-12 skaters and to risk having 1-24/JW/JGPF skaters left out altogether, because there are more eligible skaters than open slots, or to "protect" those skaters with host choices, knowing that the 1-12 skaters are guaranteed spots elsewhere.

    I would love to hear this year's behind-the-scenes negotiations between federations...

    What skaters/teams really want to skate three GPs? It pretty much ruins the fall training schedule, and penalties for giving back prize money for pulling out of events are incentive to skate injured or ill to fulfill the obligation.
  35. JJH

    JJH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,155
    These changes seem ill-conceived and short-sighted.
  36. hoptoad

    hoptoad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,399
    Cutting the number of entries is the worst part, imo.

    Can someone post the minimum score required for each discipline? Do all the skaters 'guaranteed' one spot qualify? In pairs especially, I think the min score was pretty high. I was wondering in particular about Marley/Brubaker.
  37. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,592
    PAIRS: 145.3 - the top 23 on the SB list (Marley/Brubaker are 24th)

    MEN: 187.32, 45th

    DANCE: 123.51, 37th

    LADIES: 134.23, 48th
  38. hoptoad

    hoptoad Well-Known Member

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    :mad: So they are not even eligible as a host pick?

    Seems crazy to me. :confused:
  39. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    Messages:
    29,977
    Posted up thread:
    I think the following skaters/teams are likely to return to the JGP:
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  40. hoptoad

    hoptoad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    (#26) This sounds like even host picks have to meet the minimum score.