2010-2011 US Senior Ladies

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by haribobo, May 10, 2010.

  1. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    So have a lot of people on this forum.

    The only thing you are doing with your incessant hyping of Christina is:

    a. setting her up for failure if she doesn't meet the lofty expectations you've set out of her.
    b. disappointment and criticism when/if she does falter, or when people see her and she's not the next savior of figure skating like you've described her to be
    c. create animosity toward her from people who haven't even seen her skate because you won't shut up about her.

    I like Sylvia's wait-and-see approach.
     
    HisWeirness and (deleted member) like this.
  2. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely agree with you and Sylvia. That would apply not only to Gao but also every other skater. IMO, it's those skaters and their coaches who are circumspect and promise little but deliver much and/or the unexpected who are in the best position. I can think of a particular coach and skater(s) who haven't learned that lesson and have consistently set themselves up for relative failure.
     
  3. JerseySlore

    JerseySlore Active Member

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    Word.
     
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I hope you guys know that I say all this lightheartedly - it's fun to pick favorites or up-and-comers and then wait and see what happens, if you're predictions are right, then it's a nice bonus, but if they aren't, then it's still interesting to see the outcome and try to understand why it turned out that way.

    So if Christina bombs at nationals this year, it will be just as interesting to see as if she wins nationals this year, I personally think she won't bomb, but things happen and all that. If anything the summer results show just how unpredictable skaters can be, seeing Gong ahead of Flatt, etc. But I like to make predictions/wishes in advance because if they turn out to be right then it's cool. I always liked Yuna better than Mao but watching them back in 05 and 06 I never thought Yuna would ever surpass Mao, but then she did, so it was fun to see.
     
  5. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    :confused:
     
  6. JerseySlore

    JerseySlore Active Member

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    Meant 'well said' ;)
     
  7. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we understand why you're hyping her, but it's beginning to sound like a broken record at this point. :barrel
     
  8. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, JerseySlore! :D
     
  9. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    How do they know who are the best? The skaters have to have competed in the past to earn that consideration. If they were top 5 in seniors at Nationals last year, then they're in. Otherwise, they have to prove themselves. If they really are the best, they'll get there.

    By "complete control," are you talking about trying to get the very best skater in to Nationals, or trying to keep the not-good-enough skaters out? Because in between there's a whole group of skaters who are more or less as good as each other, good enough not to embarrass themselves at Nationals or senior B/JGP events and to defeat any other skater in that group depending who's having a good day whenever they compete against each other. If you're using several months of results from different events with different fields and different judging panels at different times of the season, there may not be a clear way to tell who's the "15th-best US senior lady" and who's the "25th-best." You'd have to let them all compete against each other directly to sort it out, and even then they might switch places between short program and long.

    If some are qualifying to Nationals through JGP or senior B or Grand Prix byes and others are qualifying through sectionals, and if the number of slots at Nationals and the number of byes is limited, it's always possible that any given deserving skater will miss out this year.

    Closer monitoring will help in deciding which skaters to send to JGP and senior B internationals and to Skate America. Thinning out deep sectional fields could be one consideration in deciding whom to send where, but it's not the only factor.

    For foreign Grand Prixs it won't help much. If USFS thinks a skater with a foreign GP assignment didn't look good in monitoring, forbidding them to accept the invitation isn't going to guarantee that the host federation will replace them with another US skater. It might just mean one less US skater on the Grand Prix and one less skater at Nationals.

    Again, that's not going to help get any other deserving skaters to Nationals -- if anything, it could mean that someone who otherwise could have gone will have to stay home.

    All this "closer monitoring" would achieve in these cases would be to keep some borderline-national-quality skaters out of Nationals. Which could make Nationals slightly smaller and less expensive. It won't do much to help other borderline skaters that by some criteria might seem more deserving.
     
  10. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    :(
     
  11. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I think we are drifting off-topic, so let me take this discussion to the new thread: "Hypothetical: Would a Qualifying Score system for US Nationals be more fair?" Which is right where our current discussion belongs.
     
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I just think it's funny. But you know, I like a great number of skaters, most of them just aren't in the US right now, as currently most of the US ladies are rather ZZZ in my opinion.

    Seeing as this is the senior ladies thread though anyone know if Blake Rosenthal is going to compete this season? I know she's starting Harvard, but it is very close to the Skating Club of Boston, so potentially she could train there if she wanted to continue. She's a very pretty skater, her jumps are a mess sometimes but if she starts working with Mark and Peter they may be able to help her with that.
     
  13. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    A little OT hre, but did Lam really achieve that total score with 3 falls in the competition? If that is true, I cannot wait to see how high she scoes if she goes clean.
     
  14. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Interesting point. Can the USFSA stop a skater from going to a foreign Grand Prix event?
    Can the USFSA stop a skater from going to the Final?
     
  15. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    :encore::rollin: :eek: :cheer: :cheer2: VIVANESSA!!! :p

    But seriously, that is a very good point. 15 seems to be a magical age for a lot of skaters. :watch:
     
  16. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    Are you looking at the protocols? Or how do you know Lam fell 3 times? I haven't found Sr. Ladies FS jump notes anywhere online yet...
     
  17. Stephanie

    Stephanie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, USFS could refuse to submit a skater's name to the Grand Prix pool/selection group. There were rumors that Skate Canada did this a few years ago with Sandhu, IIRC.
     
  18. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    Someone posted that upthread.
     
  19. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Yes they could. But can the USFSA stop a skater who has already been selected? I suppose something drastic would have to happen for them to try to do something like that.
     
  20. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Here was the earlier post from someone who was at Golden West:
    Vanessa Lam's total FS segment score was 106.08. Someone passed along the FS score breakdown to me as follows: 58.78 TES and 49.30 PCS with -2 in deductions.
     
  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I think they can. Skaters with international assignments, in years past, had to be monitored or compete at a summer competition in order to be approved for their trip, since USFS is footing the bill for GP competitors.

    It was after such a monitoring session that Kimmie w/drew from her GP, which nullified her sectionals (or was it regionals) bye, and ended her season.
     
  22. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Can you imagine how sad that would have sounded at a regional?

    "And next to skate ...... former National, Four Continents and World champion .......
    ..................... KIMMIE MEISSNER !!!!" :(
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Uh, PolymerBob, skaters are announced at Regionals/Sectionals/Nationals by name and the club they represent. That's it.

    USFS foots the bill for all the Skate America competitors (U.S. and foreign) and the expenses for the U.S. skaters' coaches at the GP events, but the other 5 GP host federations cover the expenses for the invited skaters.

    I don't recall a specific monitoring session for Meissner last summer that led to her withdrawal? All I remember is that she was not able to compete/be monitored in a required summer competition (I think it was Skate Detroit originally) and subsequently she withdrew herself from both of her GP events. ETA link to Meissner's GP withdrawal press release on Oct. 8, 2009: http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=43610&type=news
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  24. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Back on topic...

    I posted back on page 2 of this thread that I had heard (unofficially) that Blake Rosenthal was retiring from competitive skating. I think it would be very difficult for someone to attend Harvard full-time and continue to train at a high level (as Emily Hughes can attest). Rosenthal did register for the U.S. Collegiate Championships last month but did not compete. Brittney Rizo did compete at Collegiates (after taking the 2009-10 season off to enjoy her freshman year at college), but I haven't heard whether or not she has entered New England Regionals.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  25. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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  26. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    That's quite a score with two falls. It's only a summer competition, but still.
     
  27. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    ONE summer comp and you're saying this? Again, we must wait to see if a) she can make a smooth transition to the top level of senior competition and b) if she has any staying power. Even with Mirai Nagasu I'd say we only know a) about her, and not b). Let alone Gao or that other girl...
     
  28. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Perhaps someone saw the -2 deduction and assumed they were falls.
     
  29. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

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    It could be one fall and a time violation...but who knows. In any case, that's a great score. I mean, she would've beat Cohen in the FS last year..and according to Sylvia's TES/PCS breakdown, she would've beat Mirai on the TES.
     
  30. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

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    I remember there was a big stink raised on the boards that she should have been waived through, or at least given a private session, but she wouldn't have been ready by January anyway. She was dead in the water as soon as she got injured

    Anyway, back on topic:

    Can we just assume that the scores would translate across competition levels like that? Already, internationally we see a good amount of inconsistency in scoring from event to event. I don't know how the USFS is but I thought this was one of the things Cop was supposed to make possible. Really, maybe they're just a bunch of numbers only relevant in competitions that have the same panel...oh well.