2010-2011 US Senior Ladies

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by haribobo, May 10, 2010.

  1. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe. I would sort of feel sorry for the 5th place finisher at Midwestern sectionals though if she didn't make it to nationals because Alissa with 2 GPs competed and "took up" one of the spots that qualify for nationals. This potentially could be Kiri and it would be sad if we didn't see her at nationals.
     
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I think what her grace posted actually is on target.

    The "name" (ISP) skaters in the Midwestern section that currently don't have a bye to Nationals are 3 -- Czisny, Kiri Baga (unless she qualifies for the JGP Final) and Becky Bereswill (who has started pairs this season). It's not a very deep section in this regard compared to Easterns and Pacific Coasts.

    Actually, even though Czisny's 2nd GP -- TEB -- is after Mids, she still technically could receive a bye to Nationals if she qualified for the GP Final even in the unlikely event of not qualifying though Mids. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  3. 5Ali3

    5Ali3 Active Member

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    It seems like every year, the season starts with a lot of hand-wringing about the cost of running Nationals, especially additional byes that increase the number of practice groups, and then by the time things get underway, the logic of making a skater with two GPs show up at Sectionals in between the GPs sets in, and skaters usually seem to end up with a bye. (Yes, adding additional skaters to Nationals can cost money, but so does sending a skater to a GP: giving the bye to Nationals is protecting the investment in the GP, but this is fall reasoning; summer reasoning is "How can we cut the size of Nationals?")

    Hmm, I'm not sure that's actually true. Technically, a skater who has a bye through a competition and competes anyway, placing below fourth, loses their bye. I can't recall a situation in which a skater earned their GP bye after not qualifying. Let's hope we don't have to find out!

    Of course, Mids is 70 minutes from Czisny's homebase. She has a tendency to do a lot of small competitions and may be just as happy to show up at sectionals!
     
  4. stjeaskategym

    stjeaskategym Well-Known Member

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    True... She could also sprain an ankle the day of Sectionals, be unable to compete, and therefore not qualify to Nationals while all the other skaters who were assigned 2 GPs are home without a care in the world about having to qualify.

    I realize it gets more expensive the more skaters you have at Nationals, but it also needs to be as fair as possible. Just about all of the skaters with 2 GPs are going to end up with byes anyway... Why not just make it an actual rule so nobody gets left out due to the luck of which GPs they get?

    Qualifying to Nationals is supposed to be an accomplishment... It would feel like more of an accomplishment to receive a bye because you are talented enough to represent your country internationally in 2 GPs rather than because you lucked out with a scheduling conflict.
     
  5. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure they are giving a bye at the junior level to skaters with 2 JGPs to make the group of potential stars as big as possible.

    At the senior level, perhaps they feel if someone was going to emerge they would have done so already. Their incentive is less to make the pool as large as possible.

    But they don't have to "guess" about that if they switch from a "top 4 @ regional" qualification system to qualifying score system. Just saying...

    Maybe they'd consider something similar to a PGA cut for determining the field at nationals, like the highest 20 scores from the previous 12 months. They'd take 24 skaters over all, with four spots reserved for injury byes or skaters ranked 21-24. The added plus of this system is the various fields are ALWAYS 24 skaters.

    They also wouldn't have to lock themselves into a formal rule that gives a skater a bye to nationals if he/she/they have 2 GPs. 9 times out of ten, someone with two GPs will have earned a qualifying score, but in the event they haven't, then they don't go to Nationals.

    And for the qualifying score system, they'd have to figure out a formula that takes into account the variances between judging panels, even though they shouldn't exist.
     
  6. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    They are giving (or have in the past, at least) byes through regionals to all the 2-JGP skaters. They still have to do sectionals unless they make the JGPF.

    5Ali3- that instance has never occurred where a skater placed out of the top 4 at Reg/Sec then made GPF. I'm sure that in the wacky event it ever does happen, USFS will move heaven and earth to get that skater to Nationals. I'm not sure if there's an actual rule in the book for that instance, but I think we all know what would happen.
     
  7. shan

    shan Well-Known Member

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    It would be so strange if that happened.
     
  8. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates New Member

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    After last year's results? Seems like more of the same from her past competitions, to me anyway.
     
  9. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Somebody posted on another board that making the Grand Prix Final is an automatic bye to Nationals.
     
  10. Jayar

    Jayar Well-Known Member

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    Very true. But remember when Doug Razzano was an alternate for the JGPF, and everyone knew that a Russian skater who qualified was withdrawing, giving Razzano a bye to Nats? Razzano had to compete at Sectionals, made the top 4, and then went to the JGPF. The 5th place finisher did not get to take his 'spot' at Nats. That's what would suck. If Czisny placed in the top 4 at her Sectional, then made the GPF. The 5th place girl would be left home, even though she was rightly the 4th place girl.
     
  11. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    What's even more crazy is that the 5th place lady in seniors at Mids will likely be outskated by the 5th place junior lady there. And the 5th place Mids junior lady may end up outskating ALL the junior ladies at Easterns. So I guess that's why I can't get too worked up over Czisny taking up a spot...even the 4th place Mids senior lady will be lucky she wasn't at Pac Coasts this year.
     
  12. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know, Mids for junior ladies will be intense. I would be worried about Nina but she's doing much better now and plus the judges love her.
     
  13. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I thought the bye situation got a little out of hand last year, so I'm not surprised USFSA is more cautious with byes whether it is due to costs or past criticisms.

    That said, I don't thnk people will put up a fuss if skaters like Czisny get a bye.
     
  14. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    It's looking like some of the Grand Prix Senior ladies with byes through Sectionals still may have to compete at heir respective Regionals -- Dobbs (CP), Musademba (SA), Gilles & Zawadzki (SW). Fortunately, as long as they place in the top 4 of their Regional (to be eligible for their bye from Sectionals to Nationals), none of them should take a Sectionals spot from the 5th or 6th (in SW) place finisher at Regionals.
     
  15. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I would hope that the USFS would give any skater with 2 SGP events a bye to Nationals. That's a lot of competition in a short amount of time, and to have to skate at a Regional event on top of that seems a little excessive, IMO.
     
  16. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    jgp final qualifiers deserve a bye. They earn them.

    GP byes are tricky. On one hand, it's too much to compete at 2 gps and do regionals and/or sectionals, but once in a while, people gripe over skaters who get gp slots --and therefore earning a bye--when their results aren't so spectacular,so we don't know if they would have made it out of their sectionals.

    There's that situation with Megan Oster, but she withdrew from both GPs after not qualifying for regionals. I remember much talk about that, and a lot of discussion about Emily Hughes another year doing gps and earning byes after doing rather poorly at regionals one year. And also last year, should Meissner get a bye to nationals after not competing at nationals the year before? She eventually lost the bye, but the rule would have allowed her to compete in Spokane had she done her gp. In cases like this, it should be either bye all the way (because that gp withdrawal eventually cost her the spot at nationals) or no bye at all (making her prove herself from the getgo).
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  17. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Didn't the USFSA send Emily to Skate America last year because they knew there was a good chance she wouldn't get out of sectionals considering the score she put up at regionals? But it would be good for rankings if she competed at nationals where she is a former Olympian, and rankings/drama matter I guess.
     
  18. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    I think her score at Regionals (139+) would have put her in 3rd place at Sectionals. She only scored about a point higher at Nats (140+). Both of which were slightly better than her score at SA (135+). Not sure what you mean about rankings, though.
     
  19. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I see what you're saying, but IMO, if a skater is good enough, has earned a spot or has been chosen to represent the U.S. on the Grand Prix series, they're worthy of a direct bye to Nationals. I know it can get tricky with people withdrawing from GP events at the last minute, but that's more of the exception rather than the rule.
     
  20. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I just meant it would add to the intensity/drama if Emily was at nationals where she had already gone to the Olympics and was making a "comeback".
     
  21. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    Perhaps you mean "ratings", not "rankings". :)
     
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Vanessa Lam, who turned 15 in June and was 8th in Junior at 2010 U.S. Nationals, won the Senior Ladies event at the Golden West club competition this past weekend with a total score of 158.19, which happens to be the second highest score this summer.

    For those who like to keep track of summer competition scores ;), here is the current Top Ten:
    Christina Gao 159.07 (Skate Detroit) - bye to Nationals
    Vanessa Lam 158.19 (Golden West) - SWP
    Kristiene Gong 153.92 (Glacier Falls) - SWP
    Agnes Zawadzki 153.82 (Liberty) - SW; bye through Mids to Nationals
    Ashley Wagner 153.17 (Skate Wilmington) - bye to Nationals
    Rachael Flatt 149.33 (Glacier Falls) - bye to Nationals
    Samantha Cesario 147.26 (Liberty) - NA
    Lindsay Davis 135.77 (Glacier Falls) - SWP
    Karen Zhou 135.03 (US Collegiates) - SWP
    Yasmin Siraj 131.48 (Liberty) - NE

    The Southwest Pacific (SWP) region is shaping up to be the deepest/most competitive of the 9 Regionals for Senior ladies this October.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  23. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Theoretically I think skaters with 2 gps should get a bye, but USFSA doesn't seem to require good summer monitoring as a condition for fall assignments, so we occasionally end up with gp skaters who get byes but have rather poor international performances. Then fans grumble. Perhaps a stricter monitoring system could take care of that?

    I also wonder about skaters like Carriere. He competes at SA, so he gets a sectional bye right? Yet he withdrew from last year's nationals, so in a way, the ISU assignments are "dictating" to an extent who gets to compete at US nationals. Not sure if there's a way around that though.
     
  24. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    What did I tell people about Christina? It seems to me that she is living up to her hype, and what's better is that score she posted was at the very beginning of the summer and she achieved it without using all her jumping passes (she did two combos only, and each one only had 2 jumps, had she done another 3 jump combo her score would have been even higher) :)
     
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    You mean YOUR hype? ;) Some fans like to hype the younger generation of skaters, while other fans, like me, prefer to take a "wait-and-see" attitude as the season progresses. I am pleased to see Christina Gao's improvements in her skating so far this summer, and am really looking forward to seeing how she does at her first international (JGP Austria) in 2 weeks.

    (jlai, yes re. Carriere. I've listed the known sectional byes in the Senior Men's thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2866718&postcount=29 )

    ETA:
    But I don't think a "stricter monitoring system" by USFS in the summer should result in Grand Prix assignments (which are based primarily on the previous season's international results) being taken away from skaters? USFS can only control which U.S. skaters are assigned to Skate America, and at least they have been leaving SA TBA spots open to reward skaters/teams that monitor well in the summer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
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  26. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, all hail the might pinky. You are sooooo amazing and prognostic! Please pinky, tell us the sekret of your ways? :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  27. gracieboo

    gracieboo New Member

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    Vanessa had a fall in the short and two falls in the long and still received the highest score in the competition by over 44 points. Her artistry has immensely improved from what I saw last season.

    http://allyearfsc.com/events/GOLDEN_WEST/2010gwresults/SeniorLadiesFS.HTM

    does anyone have a link to Gao's program? I would love to see her new program! :)
     
  28. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    As I said, there's no good way around the issue, as the byes due to GP assignments are shaping the US nationals competitor list and are not completely within USFSA control. (Which I think is a bit weird. USFSA should have complete control over who compete at their own nationals to make sure the best get there.)

    The only things I can think of is 1) closer monitoring prior to international assignments and 2) being more stringent with byes. Or a combination of both.

    ETA: Here's another thought: USFS could spread out the sectionals through two weekends, so a lower-ranked skater going to, say, Skate America, will still go to a sectionals the weekend before or after (eta: if that skater does poorly in the gp, say 10th, 11th or sth). In those cases, that skater isn't required to be in any skating club within that region. That would be a drastic reform of the regional/sectionals/bye system though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2010
  29. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qldotckIovU
    FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMsz50dW9JI&feature=related
    :)
     
  30. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Well, my predictions about nationals and the Olympics actually turned out to be correct - Mirai going, Sasha not going, Alissa bombing, Christina beating Caroline....:p

    Further, I've seen Christina skate live, so that makes a difference.