1994 Olympics in Lillehammer - Controversial Results across the Board!

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Xela M, Mar 31, 2014.

  1. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    In a sense yes but I don't believe Sasha and Maya are on talking terms. I could be wrong though. I do know that Grishuk, Usova, and Platov are all on relatively good terms with one another now (since about 2005 I believe).
     
  2. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    That sounds good enough. Sasha is the pig and the rest should avoid him at all costs. He has only brought turmoil into everyones life.

    If I was Maya I would never speak to him again either. Cheating on me while married is bad enough, but cheating on the one he is cheating on you with, shows he considered you and the marriage to be a total joke, just a hidden title on the side to keep secret.
     
  3. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

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    Platov and Maya have always been friends and have definitely coached together (maybe still do?). Platov said about his relationship with Zhulin that it was amicable, but not friendly. In 2006, Platov was reunited with Grishuk on the Russian dancing on ice show and G&P skated together for exhibitions between 2006-08 . But he was once asked if he would ever consider coaching with Grishuk and he responded "No, one has to be good friends in order to coach together". In 2006, Grishuk was still publicly blaming Platov for their split and telling the Russian press how he didn't share his prize money (for Nagano) with her. Usova was still talking about how Grishuk broke up her marriage.

    However, it may well be that they have all made up now :D
     
  4. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I misunderstood. There were no rules for the judges about scoring and how much to to value or reward one thing or another. Like today, there were rules about what dances could include, including limits on separations and things like overhead lifts. A lot of folks were annoyed they did not see a specific deduction taken for the overlong separation in G&P's free dance, but honestly, in the days of ordinals, niggling over points really misses the big picture. The judges who thought they should be first were going to put them first, whatever numbers they used to get them there.
     
  5. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    But were there supposed to be specific deductions for overlong separations or not?

    If so, then "putting in first who you thought should be first" could be considered ignoring the rules. That would be like a judge saying, "Who cares about required elements and/or mandatory deductions in the SP? I'm just going to rank the skaters the way I want to." Would that be considered good judging?

    If a judge thought that, even after any required deductions, G&P still deserved first because they were so far ahead of everyone else, then fine. But if the judge thought that the couples were close, then I don't see how glossing over any possible deductions would be considered okay. Or were the deductions in question completely optional?
     
  6. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I guess that is the strongest case for U&Z deserving 1st with their slow, boring, and awful FD. They atleast broke no rules and since it appears the judges deducted for T&D's last back flip atleast .1, they should have also deducted for G&P's seperations, which would have dropped them to 3rd (despite that they were my favorite skate that night). That was probably what annoyed not only some U&Z supporters, but many T&D fans, as they felt T&D took the hit for breaking a rule but then saw G&P did not.
     
  7. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Yup.

    I forget -- and it's almost impossible to find this information online now that 6.0 rules are never used for free dances -- was the deduction for too-long separation (or for illegal elements, such as T&D's lift with man's hands above head) 0.1 from each mark or 0.2 from the technical mark?

    Some of their scores do not reflect the appropriate deductions, especially 5.9 and 6.0 from the Russian judge.

    G&P skated last. U&Zh and T&D had already received very high marks.

    In most cases, if a skater/team with a deduction is really that much better than the next-best contender, in a given judge's honest opinion, that they deserve to place higher even with the deduction, they can just set the base mark high enough that the total is still enough for first place after the deduction.

    Only if the scores for the other contenders are already at 5.8 and 5.9, there isn't room to reflect the deduction and reflect the judges' honest ranking of the skaters/teams. So one way or another they have to violate the rules -- either don't take the full deduction, or don't rank the teams in the order you believe they deserve to be ranked.

    Of course we weren't inside the judges' heads, we don't know their thought processes, whether there were any dishonest considerations as well, or honest mistakes of not timing the separations (did the referee inform the judges?).

    But if a judge honestly thought that G&P were that much better and didn't have room in the marks to show the deductions, what should they have done?
     
  8. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Member

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    I once admired them (and I still do admire their unmatched harmony as a skating couple), until I came to watch the '94 olys. It wasn't so very much the competition itself and their behaviour after being placed third, but the interviews and their confessions about why they had returned and how they think of themselves that made me question my fandom. They finally lost me as a fan with their autobio. This book seems to be the bible of the die-hard T/D-fans, but reading with a little emotional distance to the authors, you soon realize that there are too many justifications, too much it's-always-someone-elses-fault-when-we-fail, too much we-are-the-greatest. Developing a stable self-confidence is appropriate, if not neccessary, when you are in the skating business, but they seemed to think that the workd was rotating around them, with a large fanbase to support that point of view.

    As someone on here recently stated: it's difficult not to become a little big headed after a win like theirs in Sarajevo. What annoys me though is that they've always claimed to be so humble, so modest, so shy. It was the image they had become famous with, and it must have been hard to maintain that impression.
     
  9. angelflies

    angelflies Member

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    Humble and modest is the last words that should be ever associated with T&D. Greatness, innovation, one of the best dance teams ever and arguably the best, maker of many iconic programs, record holder of all the perfect 6.0 records, Olympic and World Champions yes. Humble, modest, no. I cant believe they would have ever potrayed themselves as such.
     
  10. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    Do truly humble and modest people normally claim those traits? ;)

    Reminds me of a piece by Jonathan Edwards that we read in English Lit way back in college. In it, he said something like, "I will not be content to be humble. I must be the humblest...." :lol: Our professor pointed out to us the inherent contradiction there right away.
     
  11. gk_891

    gk_891 Active Member

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    Wow, were T&D that bad when it came to their ego? I know very little about them and have always admired their skating. But even if all of this is true, it doesn't detract from their abilities as skaters. Just like Oksana Grishuk's crazy days as Pasha shouldn't detract from her abilities as an ice dancer.
     
  12. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    Of course not. But it may make it more difficult to appreciate their art. :) Of course, it seems to me that the "diva mentality" is very common among those considered to be the best in a particular field, so I've pretty much come to expect it. In general, if you're looking for modesty and humility, don't go looking for it too hard in those who excel in competitive sports. ;) I think ultra-competitiveness and modesty don't go real well together in general, even though some are pretty good at faking it.
     
  13. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    Really??? Is that why when Laura Branigan tried calling her a few years back, she just never answered?? ;)
     
  14. Shyjosie

    Shyjosie Member

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    I don't want to do them injustice so, sorry, I must correct myself: of course, they never said word by word "we are so modest" or the like. But they were portrayed like that when their career began and subsequently, they made it part if their image to appear like the most-down-to-earth people in skating, maintaining that the fame never got to their heads.
    I agree with everything you say here. As their incredible uniqueness and perfect sixes were what I used to think of when they got mentioned (and were what I wanted to remember them for) I found it quite odd that they went and challenged all that in '94.
     
  15. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    Well, this thread has been quite informative. I've learned that:

    T&D claimed to be humble.

    There's a chain of discount haircutters located north of the Tri-State area, known as Fantastic Sams, that's akin to the Lemon Tree and Supercuts.

    Nancy Kerrigan actually complained to a man, who made his living dressing up as a cartoon mouse and appearing in children's parades, that she had to do something corny for one day (for which she was paid 2 million dollars ),and she seriously expected sympathy :confused: .
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
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  16. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, it was corny.
     
  17. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    With threads like this, who needs PBS??? :D

    Well, when life throws you corn, make cornbread. ;)
     
  18. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Or make popcorn!
     
  19. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    Or just suck it up for 2 million dollars! :soapbox:

    but yeah, it was corny.
     
  20. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    :confused:

    After being nearly crippled by a competitor that got away with it, this was just one of the perks. All she had to do was sit in a car and smile and then collect $2mil. But this is Nancy Kerrigan, so of course she found a way to somehow f it up. The backlash was so bad, people are still bringing it up 2 decades later.

    None of it had absolutely anything at all to do with whining to underpaid staff or fishing for sympathy.
     
  21. trouble77

    trouble77 Member

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    I believe Nancy Kerrigan said that wearing a medal was corny, not the parade.
     
  22. soxxy

    soxxy Guest

  23. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

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    Well he was quite the charmer wasn't he ;) I think Platov once said that T&D fought in training as much as he and Grishuk. It was reported that T&D's training sessions usually ended in (Jayne's) tears.
     
  24. coraczek

    coraczek Member

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    There was definitely some tension and arguments between them before Lillehammer. They even admited that in their biography. And it is also shown in the BBC documentary. (BTW If I were Jayne, I would punch him :revenge:)

    But I have never read or heard that training sessions usually ended like you have written. I would really appreciate if you posted a link where it was reported. I'm so curious. I just cannot imagine working together for so many years and having fights which finish with tears all the time. So if you have anything about it, please give us a link.
     
  25. nguyhm

    nguyhm Member

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    If my memory serves me right I remember seeing a fluff showing Jayne crying at practice and hearing about Chris being very pushy and bossy and critical of her. I don't know about the "all practices" part.
     
  26. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

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    Oh gosh, it was years ago and I can't remember if it was the Russian press, but I thought it was widely known that Dean bullied Jayne in training because he was such a perfectionist and fanatically competitive. I just did a quick google search and this website refers to a documentary I remember watching where Dean was horrible in training and Jayne kept crying.

    http://bitchingonice.blogspot.co.uk/2008/01/getting-our-skates-on.html?m=1 not the best source, but I'll try to find the docu itself
     
  27. coraczek

    coraczek Member

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    It is shown in the BBC documentary (the link was is in one of the posts above). It was recorded before Lillhammer. I was just curious about all training sessions.
    Thank you. It is a strange site, but anyway I will read it.
     
  28. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

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    To be fair, I don't think police were ever called to any of T&D's training sessions unlike G&P :lol: so maybe Pasha in her prime was worse to Evgeni than Chris was to Jayne
     
  29. coraczek

    coraczek Member

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    Ok, I read it (maybe not everything, because most of it was unreadable:D). They just mention what everyone can hear in the documentary and read in the biography. So nothing new.
    Police? Are you serious now or are you joking?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  30. Xela M

    Xela M New Member

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    I haven't seen the link to that particular documentary in this thread? Have I missed it? I distinctly remember Jayne breaking down in tears in training and Chris being really horrid to her.

    At least once police were called out to G&P's training session. Pasha claimed Evgeni hit her because she wouldn't train hard enough, but Evgeni said she became hysterical and wouldn't stop screaming. She was the one who would force Evgeni to repeat moves over and over and over again and make him carry on even when he physically couldn't. If she didn't like a piece of choreography it had to be changed so many times until she was satisfied. She was quite the fanatic! And of course there were the skates which were thrown at Evgeni and the constant tears - Tarasova said she never knew anyone could cry as much as Grishuk did. Fun times :D