Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Xela M, Mar 31, 2014.
I hope your children grow up to be just like Tonya. Start saving for bail money now.
Nobody is as self-obsessed and disgraced as Tonya Harding is in this sport.
No way. Let them rot in jail
Having re-watched the 1994 pairs competition last night ( ) I am still in shock over the extremely high quality of the skating. I have never seen a similar pairs competition since. It's as if everyone skated their absolute best that night and the 2 top teams were simply breathtaking.
I think 2002 pairs were pretty amazing.
As much as I love B&S I'm still annoyed that they never could skate any of their Olympic programmes clean and S&P were not in the same league in my books. In my view G&G and M&D are the 2 best pairs teams of all time.
The ladies free should have been:
I would also accept Sato over Chen as Chen's spins were a little under.
The mens free should have been:
Of course I am looking at it with the benefit of hindsight, as skaters in the penultimate would not be given marks that can hold up. But in any event, Urmanov over Stojko is a given. Even the judges agree - it was an 8-1 split between them.
Giving the free to G&G over M&D is the same reason basically as giving it to B&S over S&P in 2002.
Chen was the definition of mediocre that point. Little jumps, not much artistry. Wouldnt have ahead of any of Kerrigan, Sato, or Baiul in the free skate. I probably would have given Bonaly the bronze since even with her 2 big mistakes and Chen's clean skate Bonaly landed some much harder jumps- two super difficult triple-triples for instance.
I rewatched Sato's free skate to see what all the fuss was about, and I don't get it. It was very sloppy and frantic a la Ashley Wagner's free skates. I think people are thinking of how well Sato skated as a pro and the beautiful pro skater she grew into and not what she put on the ice in Lillehammer. Sloppy skate. I don't get it.
I'm a sucker for great basics (skating skills, jump technique, spin positions/centering/speed). Sato also landed more triples than Kerrigan and Baiul. In terms of choreography, I think she had the most pure routine in terms of using actual skating moves and utilizing her blades. She was also really fast out there on the ice (especially compared to someone like Kerrigan who was slower than I remembered). That goes a long way for me.
Lu Chen had little jumps? I need to reevaluate her jumps, but I remember Chen having some pretty big jumps there.
She does have great basics but blah...sloppy skate...very wild and frantic.
Lulu had big jumps, especially when she was younger. Some of the other skaters even nicknamed her the pogo stick because that's how she looked on the ice in the early 90s.
Anyone but Kerrigan. I dont care who it is was, as long as it wasnt her. Baiul, Chen, Sato, anyone else who skated at all decent. Kerrigan would be the worst Olympic Champion ever, topping Sotnikova this year. There is nothing to her skating, not impressive jumps, not impressive artistry, only fair basics, awful spins.
It's funny to think that this period is often cited to being particularly weak since Kerrigan almost won gold. However, the 1994 Olympic Ladies class certainly benefitted from Whack exposure to skating and in hindsight were a great class to have in terms of post-Olympic, professional marketing. They all seemed to be the right mix of personalities and nationalities that was marketable to Scott Hamilton's shows and fluffy pro competitions.
The 1994 ladies field I thought was one of the deepest. You had Baiul, Sato, Chen, Chouinard, Harding, Kerrigan, Bonaly all in the field, and all at or near their best (well maybe not Tonya). All the more reason it would have been a huge waste to award the Olympic Gold in such a deep field to average generic Nancy.
I think you can add Witt too. She wasn't at her technical best, but artistically, she was way better than what she was in her competitive peak.
I agree. The terrible Ukraine judge who gave Baiul a 5.9 for technical merit also gave Witt a 5.1 for artistry. Her program was really the best of the night artistically though.
It seems obvious that Irina was robbed in SLC.
Going into the Olympics, I could name nine women who had the potential to medal. I think the "Nancy Kerrigan and Friends" TV special that served as Olympic sendoff and welcome back to the ice after the whack injury had pretty much the same list.
They did end up top 9 at the event, although Harding was 10th in the short.
Many of the lower-ranked skaters, including Rechnio who was 9th in the short, I hadn't heard of before I got to Hamar because at that time my knowledge of the international field was still dependent on whatever US TV networks chose to show.
I thought their were 7 women who had potential to medal. I didnt count Witt since I knew her difficulty would never allow it even in a splatfest, and didnt count Harding who I knew due to Kerrigan skategate would never be given a medal no matter how she skated, and how bad everyone else did. Normally I would have said 8. Szewcenko I gave a real long shot.
There were 5 women I thought could win gold going in- Kerrigan, Baiul, Chen, Sato, and Bonaly.
Chen had the solid basics, complex choreography and musicality that Bonaly could only dream of. 2 3lutzes was a huge deal back then, too, as was a very, very late 3flip. Bonaly's so-called harder jumps weren't so clean. And let's face it. She didn't know what she was doing.
I find her to be the most natural skater in the competition. Jumps were only okay but spins and footwork made up for it. Of course she was nowhere near as good as she was as a pro, but still heads above Kerrigan and Baiul in presentation. Baiul's posing hurts my soul. Use your freakin' edges.
Yuka Sato's Fantastic Sam haircut was the perfect foundation to hang her Hat full of Stars on.
I recall Baiul once skating in a duck costume, throwing a phone, and showing up to an event in Miami wearing a panty girdle as outerwear and looking 55. All I recall of Lillehammer was that apparently didn't get the memo that it was 1994, not 1984 when styling her hair, and that her dress looked like the Easter bunny mated with a chicken.
Nancy Kerrigan at least had fairly good hair. I can't comment on her "Man, I feel like a woman!" program she did later, because I was curled up in a ball in a corner.
Artur Dmietriev is hot, and Oksana Kazakova has a great profile.
But I was talking about more than just top 2 of 2002. In fact, there's also S&Z who came oh-so-close to that throw quad and had a beautiful program - their first year as developing artistes. 4th to 6th placed pairs also went clean IIRC. And besides S&Z (who would develop into legends), down the list of results hid 6 more future Olympic / World champions / medalists in the next 3 Olympic quad - P&T (RUS), I&Z, T&M, Z&Z, P&T (CHN), Savchenko (skating with Morosov in 2002).
Very much similar to 1994 Olympics in depth of field which featured B&E, S&N, M&S, K&N, W&S (w/d), Berezhnaya with old partner, Ina with old partner, Sale with old partner in addition to the top two.
Oh I must see this program.
When talking best ever you cant ignore the Protoppopovs who are the true innovators of modern pairs skating in many ways. As vile a her style could be Irina Rodnina for pushing the technical side of pairs skating and her amazing longevity and competitiveness.
I don't think Rodnina will ever allow anyone to forget about her. She is everywhere! Whereas Artur Dmitriev who practically matched her Olympic achievements is very modest and hardly anyone (apart from die hard skating fans) knows about what he has brought to pair skating
Rodnina is still deeply passionate about Russian pairs skating though. She made an impassioned plea for Piseev to stop down after the failures of Vancouver, and he sort of did but then created a new position for himself that gave him ever more power. Oh well, atleast in his own perverse methods he got russian skating back on track I guess.
Hmmm... I'm not a Rodnina fan because of her political involvements which I find repulsive, but she is undeniably a legend and her competitive results will never be matched
You mean her anti gay campaigning? I find that odd since Toller Cranston lists her as a good friend.
Anti-gay, racist and pro-Putin = not a good mix
I wonder why Cranston calls her a beautiful human being (and he means on the inside of course, for me she is closer to beautiful on the outside than inside, but beautiful neither way). I dont see it at all. She seems like a huge bigot and a nasty human being, even if a legend in skating.
Never mind - I found out... re: Rodnina racism. Fcuking hag.
She praised the anti gay Putin law put in. I dont remember the racist parts exactly, I think it was something that she didnt oppose black slavery. Xela M probably has the answer to this.
The Twitter pic of President Obama eating the banana was enough for me...
Ugh, that is disgusting. Nasty women.
Going back to her skating for a moment one thing I wasnt impressed by was how a team who relied totally on their technical ability (her and her teams artistry was always awful) it was pretty pathetic she never did a throw jump at a time many of her main competitors were doing 2, 3, or even 4.
Toller is a fantastically talented skater, and his books are fun gossipy fluff, but he really was Johnny Weir before Johnny was even born. 80% of the what he says is pure nonsense.
The protopopovs, G&G, m&d, B&S were all amazing skaters, truly beautiful to behold, but la rodnina's real legacy to the sport is this idea that no matter what, the sun will always rise in the morning, set in the evening, and a Russian pair will be ogm.
T&D made radical changes after not winning the FD at Europeans. I always wondered why U&Z didn't change theirs as well after coming in 2nd (or was was it 3rd?) there. It looked the same to me.
Well the changes T&D made didnt exactly work out well did it, so perhaps U&Z were smart to not change even if they ended up losing the Olympic Gold in the end as well. I think it was T&D who made a mistake changing everything after WINNING Europeans, and after the changes they got lower marks at the Olympics than they had at Europeans and 3rd place.
As for U&Z they lost Europeans by a flukish ordinal flip (they initially beat T&D in the FD, and G&P who won the FD were too far back to win, but an ordinal flip by G&P pushed U&Z behind T&D in the FD and dropped them to 3rd instead of 1st overall), otherwise would have won. So maybe they thought they only got unlucky there and didnt need a big change, but ended up wrong in the end ultimately. Anyway they hated each other so much by then, they probably wanted to spend as little time on the ice together as possible, even as they entered the biggest competiton of their careers. New programs or big changes = even more time together in practice and on the ice. Maya was so upset with the silver though she didnt even attend the post event medalists press conference and Zhulin was there alone.
Looking at the Europeans results and the Olympics results, it seems that Torvill & Dean had an unbeatable OD, Grishuk & Platov had an unbeatable free dance, and the overall results came down to the the CDs and how the other two teams fared against each other.
Pretty much. U&Z all but lost their chance at gold when G&P ended the CDs tied for 1st rather than tied for 2nd like they had at Europeans. They now had to hope for Rahkammo & Kokko to beat G&P in the OD as U&Z beating T&D in the OD or G&P in the FD seemed unlikely (although that said they very nearly did the latter to take the gold).
It is funny U&Z came closer to T&D in the OD at Europeans than the Olympics, when I thought they skated their OD much better at the Olympics than they had at Europeans. Maybe they were hurt by skating first in the 2nd last flight where T&D skated second last in the last flight.
I found it natural that U+Z changed their style in 1994. They wanted to show their edge; it worked for their K+P in 1992.
But it's also true their mutual loathing became palatable, and Z was putting more effort into "coaching" Navka than prepping for the most important competition... Four hours a day en route to another ice rink, it's said.
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