Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TheIronLady, Mar 7, 2013.
My point was projection and musicality, not maturity.
Well, at least Gold can project a 3/3 to the judges
Let's see if she could do it at Worlds and Olympics like Kerrigan.
Agreed, let us see . . . thank goodness we won't have to wait very long
Shame she never really practiced.
Can anyone tell me the starting order of the ladies for the short? because on the old system that would have affected the scoring!
Great Question. Tony Wheeler's Blog did an amazing recap of it. See this link. Flutzing Around, Tuesday July 6, 2010 It has all the video links too.
Short Program Skate Order
Nancy Kerrigan, USA
Anisette Torp-Lind, DEN
Joanne Conway, GBR
Kristi Yamaguchi, USA
Lu Chen, CHN
Patricia Neske, GER
Nathalie Krieg, SWI
Laetitia Hubert, FRA
Surya Bonaly, FRA
Yuka Sato, JPN
Karen Preston, CAN
Marina Kielmann, GER
Josée Chouinard, CAN
Tonya Harding, USA
Nancy did have good technique, but I don't believe she had that much speed.
Actually, I've read that skating order affects the scoring even more under the IJS.
Incidentally, concerning the mentions of Gold, is she working on a triple axel? Meissner made a brave attempt at one, but it was puny at best compared with Tonya's. However, I do think Gold could do the jump justice. OTOH, under the IJS, it's really not worth the trouble to acquire one IMO.
These are the results i agree with
1st: Kristi - 5.8 5.9
2nd: Chen - 5.7 5.8
3rd: Josee - 5.6 5.7
4th: Karen - 5.6 5.6
5th: Latetia- 5.5 5.5
6th: Nancy - 5.2 5.5
7thatricia- 5.2 5.4
8th: Yuka - 5.1 5.4
9th: Surya - 5.1 5.3
10th:Tonya - 4.9 5.3
Feel free to agree or critisize
Interesting. Where would you have placed Belgium's Alice Sue Claeys who was eighth in the short. (I am assuming she went clean and landed a 3toe/2loop combo.) For a first year senior, she had the look of a seasoned competitor, too. It is a shame she got injured, because I thought Claeys was a skater with medal winning potential.
Apart from Yamaguchi, Neske and Harding, it's funny to think that Bauil would beat them all the following year.
I think 5.6 for elements is a bit high for Josee since too much her miss was a blatant step out and should have been more than .2. I think 5.8 for presentation for Chen is much too high for that program which was not at all artistic.
Given the dire quality of the event it shouldnt have been that surprising a newbie came in and beat everyone with Kristi retiring next year. Kristi was so far ahead of the rest this year she could have probably won with 4 falls.
But I seem to remember '93 Worlds as a mixed bag. Surya Bonaly had the performances of her life (I think she should've won, personally), Chen Lu gave her best performances up to that point, Yuka Sato maybe had a step-out and/or pop in there but was otherwise great, the German skaters Marina Kiehlmann and newcomer Tanja Szewczenko were clean, as was even Karen Preston. But, I think the one skater the judges would've put over Oksana Baiul was Nancy Kerrigan and she was a disaster, only to be out-disastered by Josee Chouinard!
Interesting that Karen Preston beat Chouinard at 1993 Worlds. Did she have a problem after 1993? Why did she not qualify to the Olympics?
Preston two-footed several jumps in the free skate at 1994 Canadians (and fell on a triple flip IIRC), which might not have been fatal errors vis-a-vis Susan Humphreys except that her Swan Lake program wasn't particularly well-suited to her. That Humphreys skated very nicely to music from the same ballet without falling certainly didn't help.
I agree. My recollection is that everyone assumed Kerrigan (the highest ranking skater returning after 92) would win 93 Worlds pretty easily. She did have a strong SP then totally imploded in the FS. While Bonaly was able to win Europeans, the judges at Worlds so hated her technique flaws and lack of presentation they were never willing to put her on top, regardless of how many jumps she landed. So that left Baiul with a strong clean skate. Even though she was a comparative newcomer, she was so obviously and extraordinarily gifted, I think the judges were happy to give it to her.
The most significant repercussion of Kerrigan's meltdown from the US POV was that left us with only 2 ladies spots at Lillehammer, meaning a very young Michelle Kwan didn't get to go.
At 93 Worlds, Bonaly actually produced 7 clean triples and 2 2axels. No 3/3s but no URs either. But yes she was a very flawed skater. However, as strong as Baiul was, her whole package was also severely lacking when she didn't do any combination jumps, a fourth spin, a step sequence and both of her 2axels were flawed. Definitely not a well balanced program (although I am not sure if this term existed in 1993).
In hindsight, I would give the free to Chen (5.8/5.8) who produced 5 solid triples and a 6th slightly flawed triple together with a complex program, and also have Bonaly (5.8/5.5) ahead of Baiul (5.6/5.6).
I definitely agree about putting Chen first. I can even see putting Bonaly ahead of Baiul as well.
But I haven't watched their short programs in a while and don't know how this placement would affect the overall podium. IIRC Baiul was clean in the short. Don't remember the rest.
Chen was 5th in the SP, but I don't remember what she missed. Baiul was second in the SP, and Bonaly third. So the medals would be identical to your top 3 in the LP.
True. Along with pretty bad skates from Lisa Ervin and a disastrous SP from Tonia Kwiatkowski. Tonya Harding was left off the team that year.
That's a shame, because she had a really good SP in '93 as well:
I was going to add that but couldn't remember what the rule was at that time. There was a while where having any skater on the podium got the country 3 spots.
I think you meant disastrous qualifying skate from Kwaitkowski. She didn't even make it to the SP. Ervin finished 13th overall.
I frankly never remotedly understood the decision to send Kwiatkowski to Worlds over Harding and Bobek when all 3 had comparable long program skates and mistakes at Nationals that year. I could definitely see if Tonia had a good skate and clearly outskated the other two, but all 3 had mistakes and landed only 2 triples each. Tonia at that time had very poor international results, was already a middle aged skater, and was unlikely to achieve even a respectable result at Worlds. Very bizarre decision. It seemed it was the USFSA wanting to send a message to the two bad girls, especialy after all the trouble Bobek had caused at Junior Worlds that year. I could see Ervin I guess as she was the only one to do a personal best in the long at Nationals that year, but her content was limited enough, and she had done poorly in the short, so they could have easily justified keeping her down too.
I also think in retrospect Tonia could have done alot better had she been more focused on skating in the 92-94 period. When one looks at her skating in the 95-98 period, she could have been very competitive in the years I mentioned, but she sacrificed alot of what could have been her peak years when she was most invested in school. Had she skated at the 93 Nationals like she did at the 96 Nationals (or even 95) for instance, the judges would have had to have given her the National title (or atleast would if they had a conscious or any integrity at all).
93 Worlds actually ended up to be a really good ladies event! One of the best ever at that point. Bauil, Bonaly, Chen, to some degree Sato, Preston, Kielllmann (in the LP only), Szewcenko, and Kulovana all had personal best performances/competitions. One could not have forseen such a great event after the 92 debacle, especialy with Yamaguchi and Ito retiring.
I agree the only skater the judges would have put above Baiul is Kerrigan, especialy seeing Bonaly skate so well with much harder content (and being right behind her after the short) and still not do it, and Chen skate so well and not even come close. Although I think if Josee Chouinard had duplicated her Nationals performance from that year she "might" have had a chance to beat Baiul.
Does anybody remember the ordinals? I don't know how close Tonya got to making the World Team, but yes, I think they were tired of giving her the benefit of the doubt. And that's understandable. I mean, she could only manage 2 clean triples?
Never thought about that--yes, definitely makes sense. Her '96 Nationals skate was really good, but nowadays under the IJS I wonder how much she would've gotten dinged for the jumps. I believe she had a lot of two-footed landings.
I wonder what the judges would have been "willing" to do with Tonya at that event? Assuming she skated a clean SP, where would she have ended up in that segment?
It's also interesting that Kerrigan and Baiul both finished 2nd in qualifying, yet Baiul still managed to win. I wonder how many jumps both landed in the qualifying?
Not specifically, but I do know that there was flipflopping in the long program. Basically the ordinals were all mixed up between 2nd and 5th place. And Kerrigan may have gotten some ordinals below 1 and Kwan may have gotten some above 6th.
Choosing Kwiatkowski was the judges way of showing Harding that unless she cleaned up her act, she wouldn't get to go to Worlds now or in the future and like you said, they were also admonishing Bobek