1992 Worlds: Ladies Short Program

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by TheIronLady, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I think it was gkelly who turned me on to her Coppelia LP. That is one of my all time fave programs! I especially love the sequence at the end with the 3 spread eagles into 2a.
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Well Claeys was only a teenager in 92 and 93. I think it would have been assumed she could master the triple lutz at some point then, or atleast she probably thought that. As I said why would one assume that old Tonia Kwiatkowski could improve so much (she was a poorer skater than Claeys in 92 and 93, even if she sometimes landed a triple lutz) and young teenage Claeys could not. Had she done most of her performances from 1992 she would have finished 2nd at the 93 U.S Nationals. There was no reason for her to think at that point she couldnt be competitive at U.S Nationals in the future.
     
  3. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Harding wasn't anywhere in the short although it was a pretty good program for her. I would have had Sato higher if she didn't also bobble the flying sit. I agree that Hubert's elements were wild and unrefined but her speed gets some credit. Preston vs Chouinard is much closer than I think anyone thinks. Scratchy combo for both and all other elements very similar. Josee has more speed and personality but tech is the tie breaker in the short and Josee totally botched the 2 flip. I'd put Kerrigan as high as I am because the precision in everything she does is so appealing.


    Yamaguchi, Chen, Preston, Chouinard, Kerrigan, Hubert, Sato
     
  4. museksk8r

    museksk8r Holding an edge and looking dangerously sexy

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    Nancy Kerrigan was grossly held up in this competition in both the SP and the LP. One of the worst displays of reputation judging ever!
     
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think one thing people need to remember about Kerrigan is back then she was considered by èxperts as a very artistic skater. Now it seems many are baffled by that (or even completely unaware) and just dont get it. :lol: Her skating definitely didnt stand the test of time that well. However that was the general perception at the time, and it is why she could get away with doing no more or less technically than her peers, and win many medals in the early 90s with mistake filled performances jump wise.
     
  6. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    Yes, perception can count for a lot. I just watched Nancy's program. The thing about Nancy is that she was a "put together" skater. She was quite attractive (which no doubt helped her win a lot of "free" points), and she usually wore elegant costumes. In the SP here, I think the color of her dress was very effective. Even beyond all the trappings, she did have a rather smooth, mature style. But overall, she was pretty boring IMO. There wasn't anything really objectionable about her skating, but nothing truly remarkable about it either. When she was on, her performances were workmanlike; and when she wasn't...well, at least one could admire perhaps her hair and her dresses. ;)

    I think Tonya was actually a lot more musical than both Nancy and Kristi. Tonya wasn't that flexible, so her skating could be a bit jarring at times, but she more than made up for that in other ways--she just had power and bold movements that you rarely saw in female skaters. Whether you loved her or hated her, Tonya definitely wasn't boring.
     
  7. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Kerrigan was an ice princess w/ an image that the USFSA loved. So, I think this led to her heavy promotion by the USFSA over say, the technically talented yet troublesome Harding. Then, when you consider that the '89 - '92 quadrennial morphed into a competition among 3 Americans v. Midori Ito, who were all ranked way ahead of no. 5 onward ( ex - an earlier, even less refined Surya Bonaly, Josee Chouinard and Yuka Sato who both at the time I think couldn't do a jump harder than a 3loop, newcomer Chen Lu who at the time showed promised but didn't have cred or a federation with any real clout, a very very uneven no. 2 French gal - Laetitia Hubert, the disappearance of quality Soviet and GDR skaters during the quadrennial, Fassi pupils Jill Trenary and Joanne Conway disappearing from the ranks of elite skaters for various reasons, etc., ad nauseum).

    I think all of the above led to Kerrigan getting medals by default with some pretty meh performances.
     
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  8. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    It was definitely a transitional period, with older skaters having trained when "well rounded" meant strong school figures and maybe three triples and the emerging contenders focused more on including a full set of triples. Also coherent music and choreography was starting to become more the norm.
     
  9. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    In defense of judges who voted for Kerrigan, her lack of musicality and poor quality of movement were more than balanced out by her sound jumping technique and relatively 'packed' programs. She seemed to do lots of transitions and steps compared to other skaters who were attempting similar jumps.

    If she ever hit, her technical difficultly would have been right at the top as soon as Ito and Yama left. I think Nancy got rewarded a bit for what she could do someday. She had a beautiful 3z and at some point starting showing the 3t3t.
     
  10. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think it was the "discovery" of a skater who was long, pretty, and somewhat elegant who could land 3Lz and 3T-3T and do them with power that got her elevated in the seeding system in 1991. She was a contrast with Ito and also Harding, which is what the judges found positive at that time. In subjective sports, no matter how much they pretend now to quantify, everything depends on context, and with that cast of characters and the judging emphases of that time on triple jumps, Nancy was surprising (not boring). You really know your history. Excellent post.

    I don't know why JudgeJudy repeats all of this Nancy-bashing as if it has been written into scripture. Nancy was evidently lazy. She had so much talent--jumping and otherwise--but her programs looked like she was only partially prepared from 1991-1993. I don't think she did full run throughs enough. You can see in 1994 that she worked harder than ever and showed up ready for business. There were still moments in 1994 when she let some things drop that seemed unnecessary, and I think if you keep that in mind (that she was not the best skater mentally or discipline-wise) you will see that she had the potential to beat everyone in 1994.

    She is a little like Gracie Gold in the sense that both were/are overblown because of the possession of athletic jumping without physically looking the part of the "athlete." Nancy at least attempted to be dramatic, which was effective with audiences.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  11. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    She did? In what way? I never thought of Nancy as being dramatic, nor can I think of any comments from back then that referred to her in such a way. Of the solid skills Nancy possessed, somehow I don't think drama was among them, except perhaps off the ice. ;)
     
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  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Well, Kerrigan at least attempted to project to the audience, effective or not. Can't say the same for Gold. :p
     
  13. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

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    I never thought Nancy "dramatic", but she had a clean, polished look to her skating which I can appreciate. And I agree with whomever said that her "packaging" garnered her those few extra tenths. She always looked fantastic, and, IMO, was one of those skaters who never had a rough edge to what she did. Aside from jump mistakes, everything always looked "in line" if you know what I mean. I think this counts for a lot.
     
  14. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    She also looked middle age always. Scary.
     
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  15. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I like how the ladies used to look more womanly.
     
  16. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    Yes but the rest don't have horse face.:lol:
     
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  17. neptune

    neptune Well-Known Member

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    It's a real shame Ito didn't show up at these Worlds. I wonder if she's ever regretted it? I mean, what did she really have to lose? I think she had more to gain than to lose. It would not have been at all shocking to see her snatch back the world title.
     
  18. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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  19. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I think that Nancy's choice in music may have helped in the dramatic angle. The music which she used for 2 years, including her break-out season in '90 - '91, from 'Born on the the 4th of July' has a haunting quality to it and sticks in your head
     
  20. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Going far back in time, before Nancy really did any jumps, you can see her edge quality and the unique beauty of her skating.

    Nancy Kerrigan 1987 NHK Trophy
     
  21. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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    Lovely program until that disastrous ending. Thanks for sharing. I really miss the "moves in the field" type elements in programs today. You can no longer show a long beautiful edge the way Nancy did in this program.
     
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  22. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    I'm calling you out on this. Completely uncalled for. I'm sure you think of this kind of bashing as being 'snarky,' just because it's the acceptable word on here for bullying and being a troll, but I think you're out of line.
     
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  23. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think Nancy was always beautiful, but there is even a Family Guy episode where they joke about her teeth. Nancy had to live through an unprecedented media circus where they televised her crying after a brutal assault, so I doubt she is hurt by remarks about her appearance anymore. She must know she was one of the prettiest skaters, even with her awkward bows and scrunchies (what was going in the 80s and early 90s with hair in general?).
     
  24. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I associate Kerrigan with elegance, but unfortunately I also associate her with dullness.

    I love that everything she did was finished off. Her spiral sequence was a stark contrast to Hubert's. Even if slow, everything was extended and nice. But she just lacked the natural expressiveness of a Baiul (sigh), and who was her choreographer? I think I would always want to pick lighter, more melodic music for her. The Born on Fourth of July music was too haunting for her.
     
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  25. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Why the shot at Gracie for not being as mature a skater as Kerrigan was considering Nancy was already in her early 20's when she hit the big time. Of course Kerrigan was more mature.
     
  26. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why people think Nancy's skating hasn't aged well. For me she has excellent edges, elegant line, good power,difficult in-betweens, very finished presentation. Her shoot-the-duck into 2F with arms up has to be the voidiest move in this whole competition. I agree her placement was generous given the botched combo, but overall I really like her skating.

    I enjoyed Tonya's Moon River much more than I thought I would. Shame she never really got back to 1991 form.
     
  27. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Nancy's music style is very late 80's early 90's. But I agree with you about her skating, powerful and good technique.
     
  28. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Nancy's skating is ok as long as she keeps everything simple - simple cross overs, keep the arms straight out, stick with the simple, straight forward bodylines, etc. It's when she strays from this that she looks very awkward. I do not like her footwork or when she attempts any type of dance moves. The hopping thing in her 94 lp was just plain ridiculous.

    The best thing that happened to Nancy was when Vera decided to dress her.
     
  29. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I agree with you on that. Nancy, Jill and Debi all had a tendency to portray 'confident jazzercize' in their footwork, I thought maybe Jane Fonda did their choreography. Although at least Nancy had a classic look, while Tonya, Kristi, Midori and Jill's big hair and bigger bangs really dates them. And Yuka's headband really wins the overall Gold Medal for 'Most Evocative of the 90s'.
     
  30. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    Mary Scotvold