1984 OLY Ladies Long Program

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by longingfornia, Apr 6, 2011.

  1. longingfornia

    longingfornia New Member

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    Last edited: Apr 6, 2011
  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I started a thread in regards to the '84 Oly SP about a year ago. I seem to remember the SPs but not the LPs.

    But I do remember the competition being rather uninspired overall

    Witt deserved the win that day. Sumners had the best basics, but popped 3 or 4 jumps which kept her in contention but definitely off the top of the podium

    Tiffany Chin and Elaine Zayak were the most inspiring. I recall thinking Elaine was badly undermarked in the SP and somewhat undermarked in the LP. Tiffany was great but for a step-out on the 3flip.

    Ivanova's program was all over the map: occassionally showcased some good jumping ability, but was otherwise snoozeworthy. :blah:
  3. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It is funny how Ivanova ended her program. It basically summed up the overall program- lifeless, blah, and like she didnt really give a darn.
  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I always thought the same thing, but I've excused those lifeless I-don't-give-a-darn performances after reading how horribly she was treated by the Soviet Fed: [keeping her and her coach apart so they wouldn't defect; punished and not allowed on the team for 2 years; general criticism that the Soviet ladies weren't keeping up with the US and GDR ladies]. Perhaps that '84 Olympic bronze medal helped her spiritually for a while at least :( ....

    But, yes, if Tiffany and Elaine had better figures, one of them [probably Tiffany] would've snagged the bronze instead. And we discussed in another thread the whopping no. of top ladies who may have made the comp interesting but retired in this Quad before Sarajevo -or simply sat out/forced to sit out Sarajevo -[Biellmann who was before her time; Kristofics-Binder and her great figures; Cottrill and her strong figures and a 3loop in the LP; Wegelius; de Vries; Wainman; teeny bopper Ito, etc.]
  5. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    :confused:Could u tell more about this? It was quite interesting the skating world in that very political era:)
  6. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Here's her Wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kira_Ivanova
    It will give you a good synopsis. :)
  7. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    ^Ivanova's life sounds really tragic. :(
  8. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    ITA about Ros overmarked.
    I was really disappointed the first time I watched this program (in 1994, during a special TV show for Katarina Witt).
  9. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

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    That's only the surface of it. IIRC she was raised by her grandmother (I have no idea what happened to her parents) and her twin sister had committed suicide :(
  10. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Were you disappointed in Witt's or Roz's '84 performance? Or both?
  11. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    I thought Zayak was great.

    I always felt quite sad for Ivanova. She never looked very happy. But I found her a very interesting skater.

    I seem to remember reading something about one of the Russian coaches being a bit of sleezebag and trying it on with the girls. I think it was in Gordeeva's book and it might have had something to do with Kondrashova.
  12. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I think Katia mentioned in her book, My Sergei, that Stan Zhuk used to beat Anna up.
  13. duane

    duane New Member

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    Wow, I've never seen these performances! Zayak was great!!
  14. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    In her book Katia says that she saw him hit Anna only once. He was definitely an alcoholic sleaze tho.
  15. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

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    ^Once is enough. Is it Kondrashova who coaches Glebova?
  16. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is
  17. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, she also mentions Zhuk trying to sleep with a young Russian skater in Calgary.:fragile:

    I think her comment was that she was aware she was "lucky" because she was too young to be hassled in that way.
  18. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I think that was her point. That she was lucky because she was just barely too young for him to bother her in that way. I agree that once is more than enough re: Anna. I have no doubt that it happened more than once, but my point was that Katia mentioned that she only saw him hit Anna once. She says she went to get Sergei immediately, but that Zhuk was gone by the time they got back.
  19. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    Who placed ahead of the other in the LP, Ivanova or Kondrashova?
  20. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    In Sarajevo Ivanova placed higher than Kondrashova in both the SP and LP. Had Anna placed higher in both she actually would have beaten Ivanova since she was close to her after figures.
  21. pollyanna

    pollyanna Don't blink

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    Here are the placements for the top 13:

    1) Witt 3-1-1 = 3.2
    2) Sumners 1-5-2 = 4.6
    3) Ivanova 5-3-5 = 9.2
    4) Chin 12-2-3 = 11.0
    5) Kondrashova 7-4-6 = 11.8
    6) Zayak 13-6-4 = 14.2
    7) Ruben 6-11-7 = 15.0
    8) Vodorezova 2-8-11 = 15.4
    9) Leistner 9-10-8 = 17.4
    10) Dubravcic 8-9-9 = 17.4
    11) Cariboni 4-14-12 = 20.0
    12) Thomson 10-12-10 = 20.8
    13) Manley 16-7-13 = 25.4
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Thanks. These are interesting!

    A couple of observations -

    1) Zayak was 13th after the figures. That's quite a drop compared to '81 worlds - 7th; '82 - 4th; '83 - 9th [even w/ a stress fracture and ahead of Chin there I think]. I wonder if she was dumped on the intl. stage due to the fact that Roz and Tiffany were considered #1 and #2 in the US and the USFSA was just not promoting her -or - was she just particularly bad in '84? Then, I feel Elaine was grossly underscored in the SP

    2) I wonder if either Leistner or Ruben from FRG would've had the ability to wedge themselves between Ivanova/Kondrashova and Chin/Zayak and this may have helped either Chin or Zayak [based on my notes in #1] to the bronze medal. Ruben did get silver at '84 Euros behind Witt. I've never seen vids of her. Was she a superior skater to either Ivanova or Kondrashova? I do remember Leistner bombing the SP here in '84. I think she could've tangled the standings enough to push either one of the Americans to the Bronze IF she had performed well...
  23. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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  24. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I remember at the time seeing portions of this program on NBC, and thinking that she did have some spark, but I'll have to view this more carefully at home.
  25. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Elaine competed at any GP events at all until Nationals in 84, and she showed up at Nationals in awful conditions. (That move where she grabbed the side of the barrier and high kicked both her legs into the air was cringe-inducing and done to "Eyes of The Tiger" no less.) I also think that back in those days, it was very important that the U.S. gold medal favorite came into the games as THE National Champion.

    Elaine definitely improved by the time Sarejevo rolled around, but it was too late in the eyes of the international judges. Competing in some of the pre Olympics events would've helped her, if she had done well in them.
  26. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    LOL. I remember that - grabbing the side barrier. I was like WTF.

    Her split leap-3toe-2toe-2toe combination would've been a good CoP move nowadays. She probably had the most ambitious program at Sarajevo, as she went for 5 triples including a 3loop in the 2d half of the program, but I always get my back up for her because I always felt like she was treated like dirt by USFSA, judges, even commentators like Dick and Peggy.
  27. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    This was her "Bonaly Moment" (although Bonaly's backflip at Olys came later - in 1998). Elaine was basically saying F*** U to the judges, we all felt. USFS and int'l judges preferred the more "princessy" Roz, even though neither Roz nor Elaine came from a "country club" background. It was all image and packaging in those days. Olympic, you are correct in your thinking, although, in fairness, Dick Button was admiring of Elaine's athletics. He went nuts for her entrances into spins, for example. It was PEGGY who went on and on about Roz being so pweety and elegant, "just like a lady should be."
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to see that barrier move!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkrfexVFctI

    3:16

    I do wonder sometimes why the boards aren't used more as part of choreo. She did that during her program so she wasn't skating but at the begining of a program the only thing that comes to mind immediately was Kavaguti and Smirnov starting a program at the boards instead of the middle of the ice.

    It is kind of unfortunate how good Chin was in the SP and LP but the figures kept her back. She was young and that was where years and years helped people out but the SP and LP were good for younger jumpers like her.

    What if Sumners had not placed fifth in the SP?
  29. duane

    duane New Member

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    LOL! I don't think the barrier move is that bad. Is this an illegal move?
  30. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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  31. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I guess Peggy was the one who snarked on Elaine the more of the two. I mean, C'mon, Elaine was skating with half of a foot and still became a world champ, natl. champ, 3-time world medalist, Olympian, all the time managed to stay cheerful on the ice. What's not to love?

    BTW, while watching the Tiffany Chin '84 Olympic LP youtube clip, I was :blah: over the US commentators talking about Tiffany Chin being the '88 Olympic Champ. It was a little presumptuous...

    Do you mean had she not made the mistakes and skated cleanly? Either 2d or 1st in the SP obviously. I was just now ready to anoint her SP winner and subsequently the Olympic champ, but I think Witt also beat her in the SP in '83, too, right? I'm not sure.

    Even if she'd been 2d in the SP, Roz would've still led, but Witt would've pulled closer and had the factored placements to win overall if she could've beat Roz in the LP.

    If Roz won the SP, she would've put some daylight between herself and Witt, so she could've been 2d in the LP and won the Gold.
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
  32. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was just thinking what if she had been higher. Closer to gold but still getting silver or actually winning gold.
  33. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Rueben was definitely not a superior skater to Ivanova and Kondrashova, and she was just as inconsistent but with less ability. I am pretty stunned she was able to get silver at the 84 Europeans, I imagine she had one of her best competitions and the Russian girls both a very poor one. Her Linda Fratianne ripoff Carmen with the exact same music cuts and choreography was especialy bad. Leistner was in horrible shape for the 84 Olympics and was never going to factor in anything. If she had been in her 82 and 83 shape she could have been very much a factor.

    I guess Voderezova and Leistner were the most likely to maybe help Chin by beating Ivanova and Kondrashova. Actually Voderezova was even higher in figures than Ivanova and Kondrashova though so that wouldnt have helped Chin, it would have just helped herself. Maybe someone like Kay Thomson if she had her best performances ever could have helped.

    If Sumners had won the SP over Witt she would have all but locked up the gold under the factored scoring system. I am not sure if she would have beaten Witt in the SP or not even clean though.
  34. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

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    I agree with Katerina winning.. she was the skater I became a fan of.. she was just such a lovely balance of artistry, athleticism and beauty.. had something very special..
  35. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts exactly. I really loved her attitude.
  36. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    As you know, when Zayak was an infant, she lost part of her left foot in an accident. The injury particularly effected her ability to do certain figures, so her scores in the Compulsories varied considerably depending on what figures were drawn at any particular competition.
  37. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I find that I quite enjoy Elaine Zayak. Even her interviews are fantastic. Mirai Nagasu sort of reminds me of Elaine Zayak when the talk to her due to her freshness.

    Even though Roz lost the gold in her LP, I really can't help but enjoy her skating. I found it be quite nice to be honest.
  38. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    IINM she had trouble with inside edges so if the first figure was an inside rocker or counter (and I think it was in Sarajevo though I'm not completely sure) that's 9 large circles all on an inside edge and she would be in really bad condition going into the next two (which are 50/50 inside and outside edges)

    I remember a news story at the time that indicated she knew full well that she had done very poorly in the figures at Sarajevo.

    I do think she was completely undermarked in the SP and LP though (I'd have her in the top 2 in both probably).
  39. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Here's the video where the injury; and her adjustment to it, are discussed:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3Eqk6PoS1M

    She never used it as an excuse; or to elicit sympathy.
  40. pollyanna

    pollyanna Don't blink

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    If Roz had won the SP and Kat placed 2nd in SP, Roz would have won gold 3.0 to 3.6 even with Kat winning the LP. If Roz had placed 2nd in the SP, Kat would have won 3.2 to 3.4.

    At 1983 Worlds, Kat won the SP and Roz placed 4th. Leistner and Vodorezova were 2nd and 3rd, respectively.