19 Kids and Counting - 5th season

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by ilovepaydays, Aug 3, 2010.

  1. ilovepaydays

    ilovepaydays Well-Known Member

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    New season starts tonight on TLC.

    List of episodes from Wikipedia
    Today Show 08/03/10 - Michelle Duggar: I would have a 20th child

    I think it is neat think Jana and John David went on a mission trip to Asia.

    Not surprised that the Duggars would go visit the set of the film Courageous. Those Sherwood Baptist Church movies wouldn't be in my must-watch movie list, of course, but I will admit that they have been getting better - considering their budget and that 95% of the cast and crew are volunteers from the church.
  2. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    Omg she would have a 20th child? I guess she is still not at all botherd by all the orphans in the world. How godly of them.
  3. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    I really don't think a 20th child would be a good idea, and I disagree with the Duggars on a lot of things, but I don't quite understand how one more Duggar child would be a slap in the face to the world's orphans.
  4. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  5. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    Ah, well, if that's how it works -- I have no kids, so ipso facto I must be the greatest benefactor to orphans ever! Yay me! :cheer2:
  6. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    Not to judge you or others I'm just suggesting it to them because how open they are of wanting as many children as possible and they to have the means. They also claim to do what God says and I would think he'd want those without families to have one.
  7. Norlite

    Norlite New Member

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    Perhaps you should contact the Duggars and suggest you know God's plan for them better than they do.
    milanessa and (deleted member) like this.
  8. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    I don't know what God's plan is. I said I would think he would want children who don't have family to have one. There is plenty in the bible to take care of others so I am going by that since that's what they go by.



    http://www.gotquestions.org/adoption.html
  9. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    There is plenty in the Bible about just about everything, including being fruitful and multiplying. Just depends on what part of it you want to use against people, I suppose.

    I doubt if any agency would allow the Duggars to adopt. They're too old and have too many children already, so God will have to drop a child in the Duggars' laps for that to happen.

    Meanwhile, Michelle gets pregnant at the drop of a.....hat; if God had another plan, you'd think He would seal that path off, but apparently He hasn't.
  10. Octoberopals

    Octoberopals New Member

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    The whole situation seems a bit strange to me........the older ones raising the younger ones. Having been a teacher for many years, how does one educate that many children on so many different levels?
  11. OlieRow

    OlieRow Well-Known Member

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    You don't?


    I'm not surprised to see that they'd gladly welcome a 20th child but I think after everything they went through with Josie the tide of public opinion might change. The family has certainly gained a lot of detractors as time has gone on but I think having another child would make it worse.
  12. sk9tingfan

    sk9tingfan Well-Known Member

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    I think that they are tempting fate. The outcome of the last pregnancy should have come as a warning to Michelle that her childbearing years are coming to an end and that another pregnancy might put yet another child in danger.

    From a health care insurance perspective, while I know that they most likely pay their health care insurance premiums, their "family rate" is a bargain. It appears that this family is extraordinarily healthy, but actuarial and underwriting tables/formulas are predicated/averaged out on the basis of a 5 person family. One could argue that those of us who routinely cross-subsidize (singles, husband and wife and smaller families) families like the Duggars could have a bone to pick.

    Nothing like being altruistic.
  13. Gil-Galad

    Gil-Galad Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what's so strange about that. It's common in loads of cultures, it was common for centuries here and at your place across the pond.

    About the medical issues - pre-eclampsia is certainly associated with higher age of the mother, and having pre-eclampsia in an earlier pregnancy will increase the risk for another bout of pre-eclampsia during the next one. But lots of woman who have pre-eclampsia during their first pregnancy will often go on to have a second or third pregnancy. I haven't heard lots of doctors tell women that just because they had pre-eclampsia, they shouldn't try for a second or third child.
  14. WindSpirit

    WindSpirit OmnipresentAdmeanistrator

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    What is the 6th season going to be called? "Life after My Uterus Fell Out"?
  15. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I was struck by, when Michelle was staying near the hospital, how much the burden of taking care of the family (packing for the trip to the homeschool conference, entertaining the little ones, etc.) seemed to be falling on the older girls, while Jim Bob - a/k/a the other parent - talked on his cellphone and did standup commentary for the TV crew :rolleyes:
  16. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't surprise me.
    Jim Bob taking on those responsibilities wouldn't fit the gender roles they seem to believe in - and follow.
  17. DickButtonFan

    DickButtonFan New Member

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    Mrs. Duggar is always so positive, that's something I do like about her, I have no idea how she does that.
  18. Hannahclear

    Hannahclear Well-Known Member

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    I wonder, does she breastfeed? Just curious.....
  19. DianeO

    DianeO New Member

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    I think what I don't like about it is that she tries to come off as this wonderful mother of 19 (or is touted as such by the media), the woman who does it all and can manage that big brood, etc. when in reality she is only the mother till the child is like a year old and then they get passed off to an "older buddy" so Michelle can take care of the next baby. Those older Duggar girls run that household. I often wonder what the family would be like if the older girls had been boys (given their very traditional gender roles in the family). I wonder if that would have influenced their decision to have more kids lol.
  20. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

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    For the most part she has nursed her children at least until about the six month mark. Early documentaries/reality specials of the show have discussed their buddy system. She cares for the youngest child so long as she nurses. Then the child/baby becomes more of the responsibility of an older sister who essentially becomes a teen mother.

    Many scenes of the show have shown her nursing with a large drape over her as she goes about her her daily life. Such scenes have included her with her family in a Christmas parade, at a film festival, and visiting an elementary school. There have even been some parodies on the topic, as typically you see her with the drape (that has a print inlcuding the word mom) and the baby resting on a pillow called MyBrest friend, but all you really see are the babies feet dangling out.

    For Josie she was pumping milk and freezing it. However, the lactose intolerance issues have put an end to that.
  21. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. My mother is the largest of a large number of children. I can see the stress that had put on her and she wasn't expected to do half as much as these Duggar girls. The unfortunate thing is they stand very little chance of escape. They aren't given the opportunities of education and career so their way out is marriage. Then they will get to parent their own children.
  22. nubka

    nubka Well-Known Member

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    I used to watch re-runs of this show quite a lot on TLC, but after they drug the cameras into the hospital to film that helpless little baby hooked up to all those machines, it just totally turned me off. Is nothing private in this family? I can't watch it any longer. :( :(
  23. Gil-Galad

    Gil-Galad Well-Known Member

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    That is certainly something I don't get. Why would anyone want to have their family life portrayed like that on TV?
  24. PrincessLeppard

    PrincessLeppard Pink Bitch

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  25. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Especially with the extra expenses associated with Josie's care; which will be ongoing.
  26. JasperBoy

    JasperBoy Well-Known Member

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    I have seen the program with all the children, plus cameras, viewing Josie in the incubator. What struck me was the silence. Since this is a fundamentalist Christian family, I somehow expected there would be a call for prayer for the baby. Heck, I have no faith and I felt that the baby needed a prayer for its survival.

    It isn't that they have a problem with prayer on TV, we have seen that before. I wonder if Jim Bob's faith was shaken by this event. If so, one of the older children could have said something. It just seemed out of character at such a difficult time.

    I do hope that there will be no more babies for Michelle. She had such a close call this time, surely getting pregnant again would be irresponsible. What if she died and left all those children motherless? How could that be god's will? IMHO, it is time to put aside reproduction and focus on parenting the children they have.
  27. Hannahclear

    Hannahclear Well-Known Member

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    Well it does make sense from an efficiency, division of labor perspective. Can't fault her for it. I just feel bad for the older girls, because they don't get much of a say, do they?

    WRT another baby......well it's her body, so whatever, but I think she's a fool to let it happen. Her kids do need her.
  28. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    I believe you are supposed to be quiet around premies.
  29. Octoberopals

    Octoberopals New Member

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    Uck.....I guess that would tend to put an end to the endless 'bundles of love' that keep arriving.:watch:
  30. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    You wanted to say pants, admit it! :)

    Surely you are being sarcastic. It's not God's will for anyone to do anything they might be physically capable of.
  31. Karina1974

    Karina1974 Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention, there's no rule that prayer has to be vocalized in order to be effective.
  32. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    I have no idea what God's will is and am always surprised at people who think they do.

    Of course, since I don't believe in God, well, that kind of follows.

    But if I did believe in God and I believed that children were His blessings and birth control was wrong, then yes, I think I would believe that I would stop getting pregnant when God wanted me to. And people who say that God doesn't want that wouldn't hold much sway with me because they would be basing this statement on.........what?
  33. ilovepaydays

    ilovepaydays Well-Known Member

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    Saw the episode last night. Cool that they got to be extras in the Courageous movie. A couple of weeks ago, I got to be in the filming for some ads for a Congressional campaign. You definetely look at it differently once you see what work goes into it.

    It also looks like Jana and John David are enjoying their trip to SE Asia.

    BTW, the Duggars will be on the cover of the next People. Here is a sneak peak.
  34. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    The PEOPLE story says they are "devout Baptists". I thought they belonged to their own non-denominational Christian church.
  35. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    You mean stop being able to get pregnant when god wanted you to stop having babies?

    Having grown up around fundamentalist christians, I just don't see them following that logic. They aren't that simplistic. The adults in my parents' church seemed well aware that just because they could do something that god had made possible before, such as going on a missionary trip, it wasn't necessarily what god wanted for them now.

    It comes down to the question of whether or not she believes god wants her to RAISE as many of her own children as possible, however she chooses to delegate various daily tasks, or does god want her to get pregnant as many times as humanly possible, and together with modern science, give birth. At this point, with the health risks, those two 'goals' are starting to take her in different directions.

    At this point, they receive so much attention, or as they might say, "glory" for their behavior, that it might be clouding their judgment.
  36. Norlite

    Norlite New Member

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    I've never seen even one of these shows, and only know or even heard of the Duggars through this board, but every time someone says something like this I have to :rolleyes:

    I worked full time all the years my kids were small, and my husband worked more than FT. We've had nannies, babysitters before and after school, daycare sitters, housekeepers and yes, horror upon horror, my older son watching his younger siblings.


    You all sound like an older generation, like my mother and mother in law, who always tsk tsked at us who either had to work or chose to work and left the raising of our kids up to someone else.

    I assure you, I, along with my husband, raised our kids ourselves, as, from everything I have read, do the Duggars. Older siblings having responsibilies or not.

    ETA: apologies to Coco if I misunderstood your particular post.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  37. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't get past the blatant lie that occured last week between episodes one and two. In the first episode, Michelle stated that Jana approached them about going on the mission trip. She and Jim Bob talked about it and decided that she could go only if John David was to go too. Then in episode two the story changed to John David heard that Jana was going and wanted to tag along.

    I realize that their belief system would indicate that the first explanation was correct in their eyes. They probably wouldn't find it safe for Jana to travel alone, nor would they find it appropriate for her to do so as a single woman. Either way, one would think they could be consistent in their on camera explanations.

    While I don't agree with the purpose of the mission from what I have read from bloggers on the trip, I'm glad that Jana was allowed to go - even with her brother. Travel is not a bad thing in and of itself.
  38. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    no worries :)

    My mom worked outside of the house and my brother and I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours in daycare. We always knew who our mother was!!! No parent raises their child without help, imo.
  39. ArtisticFan

    ArtisticFan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, older siblings typically have more responsibilities in larger families. However, if you do read material on Quiverful ways of thinking, they go beyond just chores for those older siblings. It is one thing to have older sisters babysitting the younger ones, but to have them raising their siblings to the point that the younger children identify a teenage sister as their primary caregiver is a bit over the top in my opinion. The two youngest girls before Josie (Jennifer and Jordyn) have been filmed calling their sisters mom and bypassing Michelle when seeking comfort to go to an older sister.

    As you stated in your post, you and your husband hired nannies, babysitters, etc. While your son watched younger siblings, was he responsible for raising them in the sense of discipline, etc.? From all accounts, including the book written by Jim Bob and Michelle, those four oldest girls are given those responsibilities, including supervising the home schooling of the other children.

    Michelle even said on last night's episode that she was not used to caring for a baby by herself. Whole episodes have shown the chaos and confusion when the four oldest girls are not at home with their siblings. If Michelle and Jim Bob were raising their children primarily by themselves, they wouldn't make such a big deal out of it when one of them was left alone with any of the children.

    I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, as personally I'd jump off a bridge before having one child let alone 19, but I do find the parents lack of involvement to be worrisome. I guess I shouldn't care because according to most books on the topic, the 19 children are simply being raised to repeat the cycle themselves with their own families. But having read the reports of those that do escape from such families, I would say that such an upbringing leaves them at a disadvantage to cope with the outside world.
    PDilemma and (deleted member) like this.
  40. Prancer

    Prancer The "specialness" that is Staff Member

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    :huh: How does one negate the other? The Duggars have stated that they will accept all the children that God sends them, it seems clear to me that they do indeed think God is in charge of whether Michelle gets pregnant or not. That doesn't mean that they assume God will make it happen again just because it has happened before; it mean's that it's up to God to decide if it happens again. If it doesn't, it will be because it was God's will that Michelle stop having children.

    And yes, a lot of fundamentalists are indeed that simple. They pray, stuff happens, it's God's will.