Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by judiz, Oct 4, 2011.
I love how people have quickly decided that the parents or at least the mother is a baby killer. Oh wait, some think they just want publicity & money. I think that maybe we should wait for more facts before we expound our personal theories. Should we spare a thought that maybe the parents are innocent & that they are suffering? Or would that kill the fun?
It's the plot of like every other LAW & Order SVU.
I am not saying for sure the parents did it. I actually think the mother is more likely guilty than the father but anything is possible at this point. It is just that in cases like this, the parents are involved 99% of the time. Then throw in the weird facts we are learning about and a failed lie detector test, the odds go up to 99.9%
Susan Smith, for starters. There was another one where the woman claimed her baby was kidnapped when in fact she had drowned the baby in a nearby lake. Later she changed her story to say she had allowed her baby to accidentally drown in the bathtub and dumped him off because she was afraid of punishment. Link: http://www.kcci.com/r/11420829/detail.html
I feel like I've seen these facts ("OMG, someone kidnapped my children...oh wait, I killed them") play out so many times. Maybe I watch too much Dateline.
I'm not having any fun. That was just my gut reaction. Like I said, I would be thrilled to be wrong. But what are the odds that the one time they don't lock the door someone comes into the house, steals the baby and leaves?
Lie detectors aren't always that accurate, and also, what did she lie about? What question or questions didn't she answer truthfully?
I agree with you a lot.
It is kind of interesting to read this read from a psychological perspective. There is a theory that says that people react the way a lot of people do in this thread as a form of terror management.
As soon as something happens that is too hard to grasp and too horrible, they try to persuade themselves that it could never happen to them and that the victims are at fault themselves.
It is too horrible to even think about your baby being abducted so parents are blamed. Not only if they are the real culprits but also for things every person would do once in a while like forgetting their cell phone or not hearing an intruder.
That is why you so often hear women saying "well, she asked for it with her clothes" when they hear that another woman was raped. (it was her clothes therefore it could never happen to me)
I am not saying that it is not possible that something is fishy. In a lot of cases it sadly was. But the reactions are very typical of terror management, laying the blame at the victims before anything is proven.
Just imagine that you are wrong. How many people think like you and what a hell these parents then would have to go through added to the abduction.
Maybe it is fishy. But please keep in mind that your reaction is a very typical one if there are victims (ie to blame the victims) and try to think more of the innocent until proven guilty line...
The article did not say what the questions/answers say. I'm not involved with the case, I'm just passing on links to articles about this.
The article also only said that the mother said that the police told her she flunked ... which could be an interrogation technique.
I heard part of a news conference the baby's mother gave, she said the police showed her a picture of Lisa and kept asking her where the body was. She said she kept telling them she didn't know but they would't stop asking her.
99%? Really? Where did that figure come from?
Ummmmmm, it is the family or someone close a lot. Not always, just saying. I would have thought Jaycee D. stepfather was guilty, but he wasn't. This situation of parents, etc. abusing, murdering their children is happening way to much and I'm surprised people are shocked that some of us think that thought.
That in itself could cause enough agitation and cause a false reading of "lying". I don't know, I hope the parents have nothing to do with this but my gut feeling is another form of Susan Smith. It also reminds me of the Haleigh Cummings story in Florida.
Google turns up stats in a few different sources. Parents are involved in child abductions roughly 82% of the time, according to a brief search. That is likely a misleading number, though, as it includes child abductions related to custody disputes and reports when a non-custodial parent has kept a child longer than visitation allows.
No one is shocked. Lynch mobs have been around for a long time. Just not enough evidence yet for me to go there.
And when Jaycee was finally found, there wasn't a whole lot of apology going on about his assumed role in the kidnapping. Even in the tv special that ran this year, the only mention of him in the whole show was that there was a stepfather in the picture who "didn't get along" with Jaycee.
So we can't discuss the details of the case without being part of a lynch mob? On a discussion board? Um...ok then.
That's not at all what I said.
I think people on the sidelines have grown tired of becoming emotionally invested in these sad stories that turn out to be phony. People have become much more suspicious and untrusting as a result of having their trust abused.
Maybe it's television, as someone pointed out, maybe it's just that we don't trust people anymore. With good reason - look how much time and effort went into searching for allegedly abducted children that turned out to have been killed, or sold to be killed, by their parents. In those children's names, I think the police and the public have to be at least a little suspicious of the parents during disappearances, especially when it's a "stranger in the middle of the night."
I never thought Jaycee's stepfather was involved. I did think Zahra Baker's stepmother killed her, which the justice system upheld. Shaniya Davis' mother - not a doubt. This story just seems too bad-mystery-novel-ish for my taste, although it's plausible. I haven't seen any video footage of the parents, so I hope I'm wrong.
A story from the KC Star on what the investigation entails:
Given this info, it is possible that the police have reason to question the parents that intensely. They possibly have not found any physical evidence of an intruder, for example.
Whatever they are working from, they aren't going to talk about, I'm sure.
People saying that they have a gut reaction that the mother killed her baby and disposed of the body as soon as they heard about this or that they had bad feelings from the start isn't really discussing details of the case, at least not to me.
Because he did not get along with her, he MADE her walk to school which is how the perv abducted Jaycee. So in my mind he is culpable.
How old was she? What was the neighborhood like? B/c walking to school by yourself seems pretty normal to me.
Are your children ever out of your sight?
My mother took the bus to school by herself in Taipei (a VERY large and busy city) when she was 6.
I suppose her parents secretly wanted her to be kidnapped.
That is some fcuked up reasoning.
Aren't you the one who posted earlier about being able to spot fake tears a mile away?
(and I also was allowed to walk unchaperoned around my town under the age of 10. Too bad my parents were just too inept to arrange for a psychopath to pick me up!)
I didn't realize this forum was strictly for stating facts and that interjecting one's thoughts is not allowed.
The whole story is in the Jaycee Dugard thread. Dirt road, rural area, no houses; better yet read her book for the first hand account.
didnt they move to that town because they thought it was safer?
the idea that he is culpable is rather silly
I have my phone with me almost all the time. On the rare occasions that I have forgotten it, I generally turn around and go get it. I've had one too many flat tires or car issues to even think about not having it. The reason I got one of those first huge cell phones was because my car had issues on a major interstate and no one stopped, in broad daylight. Eventually my car started again and I could get to a truck stop, but it was scary to be on the side of the interstate with semis and cars passing you at 70 miles an hour.
I am quite OCD about locking the doors and even more so if my husband is out of town. When my kids were little, I made sure that all the doors were locked. I don't sleep well when my husband is gone and wake up with the littlest of noises. If my husband was working nights for the first time - I would have had super hearing. But then as some people have noted, not everyone has that "spidey sense" or "cautionary" personality.
The video clips of the workers going through the landfill was gut wrenching. There was a little boy killed by his father in this area and we saw night after night of video clips of people searching landfills. People volunteered to do that.
The police and FBI must have some reason to believe it is necessary to search landfills. They must have some reason to state that the family is no longer cooperating. I would like nothing more than to believe that the child is safe or that if she isn't that the parents are not involved. That said, I think that the family does know something and may be involved at some level.
I could see that little boy's face in my mind as soon as I read this, numbers123. That was a horrible tragedy.
I also have a feeling that the police in KC have found (or not found) something that is making them take the course in this investigation that they are taking.
That's exactly why I got mine, because I had a few car emergencies, including one at a gas station, where in order to use the pay phone I had to take out $$ from an ATM and then buy something in order to get change for the phone to call AAA.
I am too. My mother was a stickler about keeping the doors locked, and running around making sure everything was tied down if we were all going somewhere out of town. My parents' house is the only one on their street that hasn't been broken into in the 38 years they've been living there.
The biggest red flag to me is that it was the husband's first time working at night AND the first time she left the door unlocked. It doesn't add up. If I was home alone with my baby for the first time during the night I think it would definitely be in the forefront of my mind to make sure the door is locked.
Don't you think it's strange that the two other children in the house slept through it all?
I think it's highly likely the parents were involved in some way; there are too many convenient coincidences. But IMO anyone who tells you that they don't believe in coincidences is an idiot by definition, so I reserve at least some doubt because sometimes 1+1 does not equal 2.
For example, I've been known to leave the house through the garage and leave the front door wide open--or vice versa. Michael Moore would probably think he was in Canada if he happened to drop by. And when my kids were little, I was often so tired I had no idea where my cell phone was or if it was charged or turned on, and we used to charge all of our phones in the kitchen at night.
But the likelihood that someone would just happen to come along looking for a child to snatch AND just happen to come to a house that just happened to have an unlocked door AND a child AND only one adult at home AND and and and. Not likely.
However, I remember one case where a child was snatched at out of bed at night under highly unlikely circumstances and the police were convinced that the parents did it--only they actually didn't. And the police didn't bother to look for anyone else, so the kidnapper/killer ended up killing at least one other child before he was caught and confessed.
So......I just hope the baby ends up being all right.
Not if there's an undiscovered history of abuse and they are just afraid to say what they saw/heard.
But that having been said, if my baby went missing, and then I was subjected to 3 days of interrogation while I wanted to be out looking for my kid, I might stop talking to the cops, too. Especially if I knew I had nothing to do with it and I felt they were ignoring possible suspects.
This is a horrible story whatever happens
Given the way the police sometimes latch onto a theory and keep holding it despite any (all?) evidence to the contrary, I don't know what to read into this other than "the parents" are part of their theory.
They were certainly latched onto that idea in the Adam Walsh case at a similar time in the investigation.
I have found that in "big" cases, the police seem more likely to grab hold of a theory and be reluctant to let it go until something else smacks them in the face, hard. Most police detectives will never investigate a kidnapping; it isn't as if they have a lot of opportunity to become good at those investigations, and there are likely to have been a huge number of mistakes early along.
It doesn't sound like the mother left it unlocked. I assumed the intruder (if there was one) to have left by the front door. It may be that the parents or the mother is to blame but I would rather suspect someone who knew the father was working overtime. To just assume the mother did it means that the true perpetrator is not being sought.
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