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s_parks

Active Member
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151
Thank you for the recaps as always! There can never be enough pairs coverage. I'm also disappointed in P/Z's performance, but I mostly feel sorry for them that they couldn't practice for 6 days- their first practice since leaving TEB was on Thursday! They won't be at gpf, but at least they'll get some much needed rest and practice time. The sbs jumps are always a nail biter, but luck really hasn't been on their side this season thus far. Tough gp draws.
 
clairecloutier

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
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14,561
@s_parks You're right, they've really not been lucky this season. I thought getting back-to-back GPs was hard enough, but then they also had her fall at TEB and the cancellation to deal with. really hoping things get better soon. Peng is my favorite of the Chinese pairs ladies (although I love them all) and I want to see her smiling again!
 
Spun Silver

Spun Silver

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12,130
I am not *quite* as thrilled about Hanyu's skates as the rest of the skating world, but ITA with this paragraph:

I’ve never seen a skater who has won so much, yet is still so hungry for more. It’s as if his Olympic gold never happened. Each time Hanyu steps on the ice, it’s like the first time: He is driven to show us once again how good he is, how much he deserves to be #1.
Click to expand...

Great job, as always, Claire, though I am puzzled by most of the photo choices. ( Sidhu's head is chopped off, one photo is not from NHK, the S/K shot is from a most unflattering angle, etc.) JMO.
 
Amantide

Amantide

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4,501
clairecloutier said:
Well, it's a little late, but here's my review of the Grand Prix Final pairs event: https://adivinesport.wordpress.com/2015/12/16/grand-prix-final-2015-pairs-review/.
Click to expand...

As usual it's always a pleasure to read your blog Claire. :)

I too question the wisdom for Yu&Jin to continue to include the quad fo the rest of the season. It's not what they need right now and I'm very disappointed with the Chinese Fed for how they have managed these two, this season. :( They are my favorite chinese Pair, after Sui&Han.

p.s. Stolbova didn't double footed the 3F throw on the SP. In real time it looked like she slightly touched the ice with the free leg because there was some ice flying but if you see better in the reply - not an easy camera angle but put the speed on 0.25 - you will see that was caused by her toe and running edge on the landing foot. The twist is not good though and it stands out as a glaring weakness in terms of their own skating and cobviously ompared with their competitors as well. They need more height and I'm not sure if they can fix it. They would need to re-learn their technique from scratch. Not an easy thing to do and certainly they can't do it now, during the season. I hope something can be done in the off season though.
 
clairecloutier

clairecloutier

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14,561
Thanks @Amantide! :)

I agree about Yu/Jin ... Between the failed quad attempts and lack of new programs, they're just not being given much chance to progress this season, IMO.

That's interesting about Stolbova not 2-footing the throw in the SP--I have looked at the slow-mo replay maybe 5 or 6 times, and it definitely looked like a spray of snow coming from her free foot--but I haven't looked at it on 0.25 speed, as you suggest. I'll have to try that. I agree with you about S/K's twist. It is definitely the biggest weakness in their skating, and they certainly shouldn't be getting +2s on it, in my book. Yeah, it would be great if they could work on it during the offseason!
 
allan76

allan76

New Member
Messages
9
Great recap, as always. Though I do think the slight issues with Tanya and Max have something to do with technique changes and tentativeness stemming from his major shoulder surgery. As a tennis player with shoulder issues, Ive had to tinker around with my serve motion to avoid aggravating and re-injuring, and Im guessing they're doing something like that with their lifts and other tricks that demand much from that injured joint. And I guess not performing level 4 lifts for a while also compounds that issue.
 
clairecloutier

clairecloutier

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,561
allan76 said:
Great recap, as always. Though I do think the slight issues with Tanya and Max have something to do with technique changes and tentativeness stemming from his major shoulder surgery. As a tennis player with shoulder issues, Ive had to tinker around with my serve motion to avoid aggravating and re-injuring, and Im guessing they're doing something like that with their lifts and other tricks that demand much from that injured joint. And I guess not performing level 4 lifts for a while also compounds that issue.
Click to expand...

Good point, @allan76. It makes sense that Max's shoulder issues could still be affecting their lifts. The shoulder probably doesn't feel the same or have quite the same range of motion as it did before the surgery.
 
Simone411

Simone411

To Boldly Explore Figure Skating Around The World
Messages
19,386
Gosh, love your latest blog entry. A lot of good detailed information, and love the links to all the videos. You also made good comparisons between the six pairs. Thank you! I also bookmarked this blog entry for future reading and info. :respec:
 
aftershocks

aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,317
Thanks for your thoughtful analysis, and for crunching those stats @clairecloutier. Very interesting to look at the statistics and gain those insights.

We should probably keep in mind that there were quite a few new partnerships. Also a number of splits from last season, and with two top teams being out with injury and illness respectively (Haven/Brandon and Gretchen/Nate) that also led to not as strong a field. The fact that some of the lower placed teams clearly need a lot of improvement and more mileage together is indicative of perhaps a transitional time in the lower ranks, or simply a result of the same old situation of too many U.S. pairs not sticking together long enough to improve and excel. Some of the teams we saw appear to be skating for personal motivation and love of the sport, and to see how much they can improve and/or just take part. I'm sure it was a thrill for many of them just to compete on the Nationals stage. And they all tried mightily. A good learning experience for all of them.

Apparently Fujimoto/Barsi-Rhyne have been together for awhile, and they are a lovely young pair with some interesting elements. I wonder why they don't show much improvement in terms of skating skills? They appear to be talented? Is it a lack of money to pay for sufficient training time? A need for better coaching? I just don't see the same energy and excitement among the lower ranks of the pairs discipline in the United States that we see in ice dance. Shaughnessy/Morgan are a spirited, attractive pair with very nice chemistry, and they are with good coaches. It seems to me that something is missing though. What is the key to fine-tuning their rough edges, and improving skill and confidence on their jump elements? I don't know what the answers are. More training for pairs coaches in the U.S., or an infusion of more skilled coaches? But then there also needs to be full commitment and staying together from the athletes.

The positives of course are the Florida teams, with Jim Peterson having pairs teams winning in Novice, Juniors, and Seniors, which bodes well for the future. The pairs crew training out of Colorado Springs is also very strong, but need to gain in confidence and consistency. Marissa/Mervin appear to need to rethink their training strategy. It may not be working out for them to travel back and forth from Montreal to Boston. I'm not sure what their schedule is like, but I think they both need to bear down and fix their technical issues and set some short and long term goals. I'm not sure whether the fact Mervin may not be eligible for the Olympics is playing in their minds. Perhaps they are mainly focused on trying to get the chance to compete at Worlds and move up the ranks nationally and internationally. I hope they do well in their 4CCs outing.

I think Pfund/Santillan and Smith/Reiss are very promising teams with good chemistry and strong jump elements. The thing is though that Pfund/Santillan need more backing financially in order to gain sufficient training time. As we know, it is quite a different scenario for the top-rated Chinese teams who are government-funded. I'm sure that also adds a great deal of stress and pressure to their lives as well as other strictures. But of course, it is also helpful to be able to focus so exclusively and diligently on training without having to worry about lack of financial resources.

Another thing to point out is that if the level of quality was very high across the board among U.S. pairs, that would make for more lively and exciting competition, but still there would only be two to three spots available for Worlds (assuming that if our teams were much better they would be more competitive and may be able to secure 3 Worlds spots). But the reality that there's a dearth of opportunities available to compete internationally for the talented top teams we already have, I think is a big part of the complicated obstacles our athletes face.
 
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clairecloutier

clairecloutier

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14,561
Thanks for your thoughts, @aftershocks. Wish I had more answers to the questions of how U.S. pairs can best improve!!

You mentioned the differences in energy/skill in the lower ranks between U.S. ice dance and U.S. pairs. What is this difference attributable to? Many factors ... But surely, the most important has to be coaching. Bottom line, we're extremely fortunate to have some of the most successful international ice dance coaches based in the U.S. (most of them originally from Russia). This is not the case in pairs, where almost all of our top coaches (Peterson, Sappenfield, Meno/Sand, Martin) are still relatively young/new on the international coaching scene and so far have not had top-level success. Unless we suddenly become able to recruit top-level pairs coaches from Russia or Canada (or some of their younger lieutenants), as I've said before, we're in the mode of waiting for our current coaches to develop further and take their programs along with them ....

Last summer, Jim Peterson's group benefited from a 3-day visit from Tamara Moskvina. Peterson is a smart guy; I'm sure he was watching and learning every second Moskvina was there ... Surely this is the key for our American pairs coaches: Watch, listen, and learn from the top coaches in the world. Use every opportunity, every day at international competitions, to see what the top teams are doing and how they're training. Then use that knowledge to improve their own programs. I don't see how else we can move forward.

One other thing-- You mentioned the funding problems that many of our pairs face, in contrast to the top-ranked Chinese teams who are government-funded. There are pros/cons to each situation. As much as our skaters struggle for funding, at least they have control over their own careers. They have the freedom to change coaches or training centers--the ability to choose whether they're going to go for quad twists or throws or not. The Chinese skaters don't have these choices.
 
M

maureenfarone

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Messages
2,821
The one coach not mentioned is Peter Oppegard. AJ Reiss has trained with several partners in California with Peter Oppegard. I think Erika Smith stopped skating a couple of years ago and moved to California about a year ago. Peter Oppegard coached them this year and I thought he did a good job giving them programs which were good and were at their skill level. I wish AJ and Erika were staying with Oppegard, but they earlier announced they were moving to SCOB to train.
 
Spun Silver

Spun Silver

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Messages
12,130
^^ I would be surprised if protective parents were not also a factor in the rise of ice dance in the US. They cannot have failed to notice the danger of pairs skating compared to ice dance. We live in an age of heightened concern about safety of all kinds.

And ice dance has been growing in prestige, with both the success of US teams and the popularity of ballroom dance on TV.
 
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