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Zemgirl
05-31-2013, 08:13 AM
I know that stranger things have happened but it would be completely ridiculous to see Wrestling lose to Softball/Baseball (played in relatively few countries around the world) or Squash (:rofl:).
Baseball is played in quite a few countries, actually - my favorite team currently has players from Mexico, Curacao, Venezuela and Colombia, and MLB (and of course minor league teams) have a lot of players from various Caribbean and Central American countries (e.g. Venezuela and the Dominican Republic), as well as from Japan, S. Korea, Australia, Canada and even a few Europeans. The fifteen baseball medals in the years in which it was included in the Olympics went to six different countries, which indicates more balance than some Olympic sports. It is true that none of the medals have gone to European or African countries, however, and I imagine that because the Olympics take place during baseball season, it's difficult to draw top talent to the Games (this probably why Cuba, which has many good player not in professional baseball, has had the most success). Baseball is very popular in some countries that are not really Olympic powerhouses, certainly not in other team sports.

I'm not sure about the popularity of softball, but I don't think either wrestling or baseball/softball should have been eliminated to begin with.

Ziggy
05-31-2013, 01:24 PM
It has already lost to golf. In the same meeting that they recommended wrestling's expulsion, they deemed golf a "core sport" :rolleyes:

Translation: :bribe: :bribe: :bribe:

Gazpacho
05-31-2013, 02:16 PM
Translation: :bribe: :bribe: :bribe:It's true that golf is expected to attract sponsors and a wealthy audience. It's also true that wrestling is most popular in poorer countries.

But wrestling costs little to host. You don't have to build a golf course, a swimming pool, a cycling track, or a track and filed stadium. Albeit, some of these may already exist and not have to be built. You don't need to set up gymnastics equipment. You don't need to transport and quarantine horses.

With wrestling, you just need to lay down a mat. It can share a venue with so many other sports. That's why wrestling is one of the few sports in which athletes from poorer countries have a real shot of doing well.

The 72 medals awarded at London went to 29 countries :eek:. Contrast that to swimming in which the 102 medals went to only 19 countries.


A little trivia: If wrestling is gone from the Olympics, the Olympic hymn will have to be re-written because there is a line, "At running and at wrestling and at throwing...." :rofl:

Domshabfan
05-31-2013, 02:53 PM
A little trivia: If wrestling is gone from the Olympics, the Olympic hymn will have to be re-written because there is a line, "At running and at wrestling and at throwing...." :rofl:

Non of the executive members probably have ever heard the hymn, that should explain their vote. As for Squash, it is actually a global sport : This is the promotion video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBGox9mV49Y), as the video says Squash has had world champions from all 5 continents. I like playing squash, so I would have loved to see both Squash and Wrestling included at the games.

Seerek
05-31-2013, 03:17 PM
As for Squash, it is actually a global sport : This is the promotion video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBGox9mV49Y), as the video says Squash has had world champions from all 5 continents. I like playing squash, so I would have loved to see both Squash and Wrestling included at the games.

Squash is already featured at other multi-sport events such as the Commonwealth Games, the Pan-American Games and the Asian Games, so it's been building its case for a while now, missing out in 2012 and 2016.

Buzz
06-02-2013, 07:54 PM
I can't believe that any of the above mentioned wrestling, baseball, even squash has to fit for their Olympic lives while golf is in! And I doubt I ever will.

Gazpacho
06-04-2013, 11:52 AM
I would personally be very sad if they remove equestrian, as I am a rider myself, but on the other hand, it is an extremely elitist sportThe list of IOC members (http://www.olympic.org/content/the-ioc/the-ioc-institution/ioc-members-list/) is astounding in its number of royalty and aristocracy. Equestrian isn't going anywhere.

For the record, although I think equestrian and shooting are :rolleyes: in terms of sportsness, I do think some form of equestrian and shooting are justified for inclusion due to history, especially equestrian.



It is, however, an excellent para Olympic sport, and that might be why it is pretty safe. Is wrestling possible at the para Olympics?Very much so! A recent NCAA champion is one-legged. Although the overall effect of having one leg is negative with wrestling, having one leg did provide an advantage in that his opponents didn't know what to do because they'd go to grab his leg, and it wasn't there. :lol:


Two people have now called golf an "elitist" sport. It is not elitist. Expensive, yes, but it is accessible to anyone who wants to play it - and there are often programs for kids who families cannot afford the equipment to be able to play anyway. My son will be playing golf in college, and I can assure you (being a skater myself) that it has cost me far less to prepare for him to play golf at the college level than it would have cost me to prepare a figure skater to skate at, say, a regional level. I would argue that figure skating is far more elitist than golf, being more expensive and less accessible to lower income people and the general masses.This gives me some insight into how the IOC Executive Board members think--they are out of touch with the majority of the world's people.

As you describe, golf is like most if not all winter sports: With a few exceptions, it is accessible only to children who live in certain countries and have families who are at least middle class.

Wrestling is one of a small handful of sports accessible to a poor kid in Azerbaijan as much as a middle class kid in the US.



Someone upthread said that golf damages the environment, and this is not completely true. Yes, they use pesticides etc, but they also often participate in environmental programs (http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=26125) and take pride in being good environmental stewards.This quote is saddening because it suggests that the golfing community is in denial. As if these environmental incentives can compensate in any meaningful amount to the environmental damage from building and maintaining golf courses. It's like Philip Morris' anti teen smoking or Walmart's fair labor initiatives.

I do believe, however, that the golfing community's initiatives are more genuinely motivated.


Getting more people to watch it would be a start. Amazing the amount of people who have posted their outrage here and elsewhere starting with "I don't watch it all, but...."I remember watching Kurt Angle back in 1996 and enjoying it very much. Unfortunately, these days US networks spend hours on beach volleyball while ignoring wrestling and many other sports :mad:. In terms of viewing enjoyment, I find beach volleyball roughly equal to wrestling.

Ironically, Jordan Burroughs gets more lovin' in Iran. (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/02/wrestling-bridges-iran-us-gap-days-before-nations-meet-over-nuclear-talks/) Was his gold medal even mentioned during NBC's prime time coverage?

While wrestling is not as popular in the US and Europe compared to some other sports, it still is more popular than, say, modern pentathlon. And in many parts of the world, wrestling is one of the most popular sports. These countries are numerous in people but not in money, and the Olympics are increasingly about money money money :(

It saddens me to know that children in these countries may no longer have dreams of the Olympics and the motivation to get there. US wrestlers will lose scholarships as wrestling programs are faded out.

Whatever you think of wrestling, you can't deny that the presence of wrestling in the Olympics provides precious opportunities to people from countries and communities in which opportunities are scarce.

kwanfan1818
06-04-2013, 05:05 PM
One example of golf and the environment: the last fews times I was in Hyderabad (India), which has an arid climate, developers were building a private golf course in the middle of Hitec City. This in a city that was growing rapidly and was in the middle of a water shortage and was facing a water crisis, but the priority was to use precious water for a golf course that catered to the area's elite, many of whom worked or attended the business school -- India's equivalent of Harvard + Chicago + Stanford -- or worked for multinationals like Microsoft which were located in the complex.

topaz
06-04-2013, 06:14 PM
Wrestling is one of the original olympic events; It should be a must have event.

Buzz
06-05-2013, 06:08 PM
This article sums up my feelings on golf in the olympics quite nicely.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--ioc-s-poor-decision-to-add-golf-costs-wrestling-its-spot-in-olympics-201325406.html

purple skates
06-05-2013, 07:25 PM
This gives me some insight into how the IOC Executive Board members think--they are out of touch with the majority of the world's people.

As you describe, golf is like most if not all winter sports: With a few exceptions, it is accessible only to children who live in certain countries and have families who are at least middle class.

Wrestling is one of a small handful of sports accessible to a poor kid in Azerbaijan as much as a middle class kid in the US.

:confused: Are you saying, then, that all sports that aren't accessible to a poor kid in Azerbaijan should be eliminated? It would be a pretty darn short Olympics if that happened.

FTR - I've already said this and I'll say it again - I don't think golf should be an Olympic sport, mainly because I don't think professional athletes - from anywhere in any sport - should be allowed to complete in the Olympics. Now if the golf (and hockey and basketball and on and on) were played by amateurs, then I'd have a different opinion about them. Even if they were amateurs, should golf replace wrestling? I don't think so. Should it replace one of the badminton/ping pong events? I think that could be a valid argument.


This quote is saddening because it suggests that the golfing community is in denial. As if these environmental incentives can compensate in any meaningful amount to the environmental damage from building and maintaining golf courses. It's like Philip Morris' anti teen smoking or Walmart's fair labor initiatives.

I do believe, however, that the golfing community's initiatives are more genuinely motivated.

I can't speak about the world's view of golf and the environment, but the USGA is very concerned about it - and about the water issue. For example:

http://www.usga.org/news/2013/February/Water-For-Playability,-Health,-Not-Color/


This is easier said than done. Moving away from cosmetic irrigation requires a cultural attitude adjustment that appreciates playability more than cosmetics. While golfer education will present some challenges, there are many benefits in promoting firmer conditions and moving away from cosmetic irrigation. Benefits include water conservation and economic savings, improved playability and firmness, less disease and subsequent fungicide use, and the development of stronger turfgrasses over time.

The many benefits make a strong case that using less water and irrigating for turf health and playability is better for the turf, better for the environment, and ultimately better for the game.

Adam Moeller is a USGA Green Section agronomist in the Northeast Region. Email him at amoeller@usga.org.


I don't have a link, but the head of the USGA was quoted in the recent Golfweek magazine (I think that was the one - I generally don't read it but it was the only thing at hand at the moment) that he's going to take on the water issue next, not that he's pissed everyone off about the belly putter.

Seerek
06-05-2013, 09:53 PM
The pro versus amateur litmus test really doesn't work anymore when determining Olympic inclusion. Table Tennis and Badminton have had professional tours for about 20 years now, albeit of prize money on a much smaller scale compared to golf (for example, the World Table Tennis tour is $3 million total across all singles/doubles for 2013, whereas Adam Scott himself won $1.4 million for winning this year's Masters).

maatTheViking
06-05-2013, 10:13 PM
Show jumping and eventing too, dressage to a lesser extend. Olympic gold is still the pinnacle.

The only sports I can think of where Olympic gold is not the ultimate prize are tennis and golf, and the big team sports (regardless of Olympic status or not). Maybe ice hockey is the exception?

In any case, it seems the sports with the biggest tv following and the biggest money involved might now live up to the gut feeling of what an 'Olympic' sport should be.

Buzz
06-05-2013, 11:37 PM
To be honest, despite being a rabid footie fan, I wouldn't mind it getting kicked out of the Olympic movement because nothing must threaten the World Cup. :blocjudge To besides I watch the olys for all the smaller and not so small sports that I get to see at no other time but once every four years.

allezfred
06-06-2013, 03:25 PM
the Olympics are increasingly about money money money :(


Hosting the Olympics is an expensive business. Without the sponsorship and TV rights money it wouldn't happen.