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Aussie Willy
02-07-2013, 02:41 AM
Very interesting article in my local paper today.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/what-no-children-fending-off-the-final-female-taboo-20130206-2dyoq.html

Is this the final female taboo? I am fortunate in that nobody really makes a big deal about towards childless me. Never been an issue in my family, although I have had a couple of friends who quite a few years ago were adamant that I would one day really want to have kids, not matter how much I said I was not interested. At 46 I think they have finally accepted that I am just not that way inclined.

Still it is good to get a perspective on your world.

orbitz
02-07-2013, 05:10 PM
I have no desire for kids either, but I do sometimes think if I'll eventually regret it when I'm sitting in my rocking chairs in my 70s+.

TheGirlCanSkate
02-07-2013, 05:54 PM
"''I am married. I've been in perfect reproductive health. I could have afforded children, financially. I just didn't want them. They are untidy … they are ungrateful."

I wish more people understood this! I am amazed at how many parents are constantly surprised by this fact! :D

manhn
02-07-2013, 06:04 PM
Not sure why people should understand that children are ungrateful. I think I'm grateful to my own parents.

And I'm childless too. But it's not surprising when parents get upset when people call their kids "untidy" and "ungrateful".

Also, from the article:


Over the years, choosing not to have children has become increasingly acceptable.

Oh, what a taboo!

TheGirlCanSkate
02-07-2013, 06:31 PM
For some reason it's unacceptable to be a parent who gripes about their kids. I have lovely kids who are...kids. They aren't mini adults. They are messy - you have to teach them to pick up after themselves. It is a lot of work to parent 24/7. And sure there may be moments when you call your mom and say "thank you" but it's not something a 15 year old considers on a regular basis. My aunt is happily married with no kids. She had decades of people inquiring about her ovaries. She told me a couple fo years ago she just didn't feel like she had patience for kids. Sure to borrow a niece or nephew for the day is one thing, but to deal with a demanding person by choice just wasn't her choice.

Anyway I think most parents aren't "honest" about raising children. For some reason, they cannot say it's messy, emotionally draining, hard work. So it is refreshing to see a woman who has no kids just come out and say it.

maatTheViking
02-07-2013, 06:51 PM
"''I am married. I've been in perfect reproductive health. I could have afforded children, financially. I just didn't want them. They are untidy … they are ungrateful."



ok, :rofl:. I am not sure I think being 'untidy' and 'ungrateful' are good arguments for not having children. That is a strange choice of words! I mean, a dog is untidy, and cat is ungrateful, but children are so many other annoying things :P. Some of the best things in life are very untidy.

As a parent, I can certainly understand why people choose not to have children. It is an expense, they are time consuming, no matter how hard you try they will limit your freedom of what you can do (we have discovered there is a lot of things you CAN do with children, but there are still a serious lack of freedom), they are sometimes impossible to reason with, you have the responsibility to turn them into decent human beings and not bullies or criminals, you open yourself up for a world of pain if they get hurt... Oh and you have to have a zen amount of patience, some days I just want to scream, I admit it.

there are a lot of little things, but if you are not getting children because you don't want to miss a nights sleep or wipe up puke, or only be around people who say 'thank you' for every little thing - you just sound a little sad and narrow minded (sorry). Those are the small things. There are really a lot of bigger issues where I perfectly well understand why you would not have children. I love my son, and I'm even having a second, but I think I would have been a pretty happy person without children.

I don't see anything strange in choosing not to have children, as long as you don't think yourself better, smarter or wiser for not having than me. I will do the same to you.

And for being along when you grow old - well, surround yourself with friends or neighbors WITH children, and in the end you will befriend someone who will visit you in your old age. My parents neighbor was an old bachelor, and my brother loved hanging out with him - he grew a lot of veggies and we always got some, my brother helped him out. Later, when an adult, my brother always visited and had a beer with him, until the day he died. No children, not alone :)

CanuckSk8r
02-07-2013, 07:02 PM
^^This.

It drives me to a special kind of crazy when parents say "you're lucky you don't have kids" as if they were unwillingly given children to raise. I simply reply "I'm comfortable with my CHOICE" though that is generally lost on them.

That is right up there with it being assumed that because one has no children they have no life or nothing going on. I understand that it is difficult for parents to know or see life beyond their children but just because they can't see life without kids, certainly does not mean it's not possible.

Skittl1321
02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
I have no desire for kids either, but I do sometimes think if I'll eventually regret it when I'm sitting in my rocking chairs in my 70s+.

I worry about this too. I am perfectly happy without children right now. Occasionally something will happen that will make me sad I am missing out on the experiences my lifelong friends are having right now (my friends mostly have infants to first graders), but the moment passes and I move on. I'm good without kids now, but it is a time limited decision, and what if I change my mind when it is too late?

The thing that gets me the most is so many people assume that if you don't have kids, you don't like them. I love children. When I was young I played with dolls, babysat, and worked in nurseries. I wanted nothing more than to be a Mom, as I got to where that could happen I found that I wasn't sure and my husband did not want kids. (He says if I want them okay, but it seems like if he is firm, and I am waffling, I shouldn't be the one to make the decision- you can't return them!) I taught tots skating for a long time to get my kid fill, but my hip injury won't allow that anymore. People with kids often think childless people push them out of their life, but it is really the other way around, IMO. Their life becomes so full, there isn't room anymore! My neighbors mostly have school age kids so it has become a bit easier than when they were infants. Now a night 'out' is often watching a kids movie, but I would rather hang out with my friends often, rather than infrequently only when they need babysitters.

My Mom doesn't bother me about kids anymore, so that is nice.



there are a lot of little things, but if you are not getting children because you don't want to miss a nights sleep or wipe up puke, or only be around people who say 'thank you' for every little thing - you just sound a little sad and narrow minded (sorry).
Why? This isn't my reason for not having kids, but if you don't want to do those things- why would you bring a child into the world that you aren't interested in caring for? I've heard many people say not having children is selfish, but I think it is a lot more selfish to have a kid you aren't interested in just because it is the thing to do. I don't think the human population needs for everyone to have a kid to survive. There are certainly people who are having children at well more than the required replacement rate.

maatTheViking
02-07-2013, 07:12 PM
^^This.

It drives me to a special kind of crazy when parents say "you're lucky you don't have kids" as if they were unwillingly given children to raise. I simply reply "I'm comfortable with my CHOICE" though that is generally lost on them.

That is right up there with it being assumed that because one has no children they have no life or nothing going on. I understand that it is difficult for parents to know or see life beyond their children but just because they can't see life without kids, certainly does not mean it's not possible.

The two extremes - I definitely choose having kids, and I love it. I have childless friends, and they have lots of stuff going on in their life. It is not like either of us are more lucky then other, hopefully we are happy with our choices.

I only find it sad when people feel like they are 'in prison' for having kids or getting married, or really sad when people they want kids, but for some reason can't have them. Hopefully most of us get to choose what we want!

TheGirlCanSkate
02-07-2013, 07:15 PM
Hopefully most of us get to choose what we want!

This!

Aussie Willy
02-07-2013, 09:05 PM
As usual with FSU, on topics like this there is so much acceptance that things are not black or white and that people don't judge. I appreciate all your responses.

What I liked about the article was it did highlight the fact that some of us just have absolutely no desire to have children, which goes against the stereotype that all women must have a biological clock and therefore must want to have children.

Prancer
02-07-2013, 09:38 PM
For some reason it's unacceptable to be a parent who gripes about their kids.

It is? I thought that being a parent gave most parents license to complain about how haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd it is to have kids at the drop of a hat.


Anyway I think most parents aren't "honest" about raising children. For some reason, they cannot say it's messy, emotionally draining, hard work. So it is refreshing to see a woman who has no kids just come out and say it.

I have an article somewhere about how people tend to think that negative expressions are honest and positive ones are not. I wish I could link it here, because it addresses something I have always found strange--if you tell people that you are happy being married or happy being single or happy having kids or happy not having kids or whatever, most of them think you trying to put a happy face on what is really a sad situation.

I have enjoyed having kids. That's my honest take on it.


Oh, what a taboo!

That was my take, too :lol: People have been swearing off having children for decades, the birth rate is dropping like a big rock, and I have read dozens of opinion pieces making the exact same point for several years now. I think we are well past the taboo stage, even if perhaps we are not yet into the "everyone embraces the childfree lifestyle" stage.

MacMadame
02-07-2013, 10:06 PM
Anyway I think most parents aren't "honest" about raising children. For some reason, they cannot say it's messy, emotionally draining, hard work. So it is refreshing to see a woman who has no kids just come out and say it.
I think you are allowed to complain about some thing but not about others. I know I'm having trouble with one of my kids now and when I bitch about her at work, the parents of little kids are shocked, but one parent of a teenager thanked me for saying I wasn't happy with my child or her choices. She, at least, feels like it's not okay to say certain things and finds her own friends only talk about how great their kids are and never about what they do that the parent doesn't like.

It's all "My kid got into Prestigious College" and "My kid is on the Honor Roll" and not "My kid was just hospitalized for depression" and "My kid works part-time at Pizza Hut and still lives at home even though he's 25."



I have an article somewhere about how people tend to think that negative expressions are honest and positive ones are not. I wish I could link it here, because it addresses something I have always found strange--if you tell people that you are happy being married or happy being single or happy having kids or happy not having kids or whatever, most of them think you trying to put a happy face on what is really a sad situation.
Well that is totally true and it does drive me a bit mad. I know that on another board I'm on, people get asked all the time for their experiences with our surgery and most of the posts are happy ones because most of us have had good experiences. But invariably someone has complications or otherwise has troubles and says so and the response is always "thank YOU for being HONEST" as if the rest of us are lying.

It makes me want to scream. To be honest. :lol:

Jenny
02-07-2013, 10:25 PM
The thing that gets me the most is so many people assume that if you don't have kids, you don't like them.

Agree - it's a conclusion people seem to jump to automatically, and it is so often wrong.

The other thing is that people assume that if someone doesn't have children that it was their choice. Sometimes it's not, and sometimes the reasons are so deeply personal that people will tell others - even those closest to them - that it was a choice because they don't want to talk about why it wasn't.

Ziggy
02-07-2013, 10:36 PM
''I am married. I've been in perfect reproductive health. I could have afforded children, financially. I just didn't want them. They are untidy … they are ungrateful."

Yeah if you're a shit parent, they are going to be ungrateful.

God, what a stupid thing to say.