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Vagabond
01-16-2013, 04:39 PM
David Jenkins did a triple flip at the 1958 Worlds in Paris. I think the reason that no one talks about this is that no one really knew but skating world magazine corroborates this IIRC.

The history of the flip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip_jump#Flip_history), including the first triple flip in competition, is apparently one of the great mysteries of figure skating. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:


The origins of the flip jump are obscure. Starting in 1913, the jump was known for many years as a Mapes (now applied to the toe loop in the jargon of artistic roller skating), but it is not known for certain if Bruce Mapes was the inventor. It was certainly being commonly performed by the 1930s.

It is not definitely established who performed the first triple flip. David Jenkins may have landed the jump in the 1950s, but perhaps only in practice. Donald Jackson is said to have performed one at the 1961 North American Figure Skating Championships. Another source claims that no skater had yet landed one in competition as late as 1968, when John Misha Petkevich was performing them in practice.

Katarina Witt was one of two female skaters to land a triple flip for the first time at the 1981 European Championships.

No skater has yet successfully landed a quadruple flip in competition, although Daisuke Takahashi made an attempt of it on 2010 worlds.
Wikipedia doesn't cite any source in connection with its reference to Jenkins.

Oddly, Jackson's own webpage (http://www.jacksonskates.com/html/jumphist.html) on the subject of jumping firsts omits any reference to flips. Perhaps that's because he himself isn't sure whether he was the first person to land a triple flip in competition.

I'm still thinking of voting for Jackson. Decisions, decsions! :judge: :COP:

Vash01
01-16-2013, 04:48 PM
If I was being objective, I might say Dick Button set the world of gymnastic jumping on ice in motion.

I'd vote for Mao landing three triple axels in one competition, but it doesn't fit Floskate's emphasis. I voted Ito because it was exciting on many levels, and she, like Elaine Zayak, changed the ladies jumping game.

Kwan had a similar effect with her seven triple programs I think, but I don't think any ladies besides these four have made quite the radical impact.

I don't see how Kwan's 7-triples programs had an impact. I think Midori, Kristi, Tonya had already done 7-triples programs. I agree with the rest of your post, however. It's very hard to pick one from this poll, so I may vote for a different skater each time. Stojko's impact cannot be denied. They actually changed the rules for mens SP and allowed a quad jump and later quad jump combination in the SP, because Stojko inspired many other men to consistently land that jump, and even made the quad combination fairly common.

It's hard for me to judge the impact of the older skaters who landed the first triple, first double axel, etc. because it was so far away, but I am sure at that time it had a huge impact. The fact that it has become a non-topic shows the extent to which skaters like Button, Taylor changed the sport.

To a smaller extent, I would give Brian Orser credit for including two triple axels in his LP. He challenged others to do that and raised the level of the sport.

gkelly
01-16-2013, 04:55 PM
I voted Ito because it was exciting on many levels, and she, like Elaine Zayak, changed the ladies jumping game.

Kwan had a similar effect with her seven triple programs I think, but I don't think any ladies besides these four have made quite the radical impact.


My emphasis? :confused: Anyway Ito, - along with the first 3-3 and 3A was also the first woman to do a 7 triple LP at the 1988 Olympics. She'd been doing 6 triple LP's since 1982. :)

Well, Zayak had also done at least one 7-triple program, but as far as I know Ito was the first to do so legally under the "Zayak rule" restrictions.

Kwan didn't have any "firsts" in this regard. She certainly was extremely consistent at performing 7-triple programs, compared to the rest of the ladies field, and did as much as anyone to solidify the expectation of that kind of jump content as the standard. But more than that, what allowed her to win so often and medal even more often, even when she didn't complete all her planned triples, was combining that jump content with above-average spins and good-to-great skating skills and presentation. I.e., she was both well-rounded and consistent with high-level jump content. But not a pioneer in jump content, which is what this thread is about.

falling_dance
01-16-2013, 05:07 PM
Was Kwan the first ladies' singles skater to land nine triples cleanly at the World level (SP + FS)?

blue_idealist
01-16-2013, 05:15 PM
I'd say Midori Ito's 3A was more impressive but I voted for Kurt's quad as most significant because it seems to be the most talked about, even today and it started the huge trend of men attempting quad jumps. I know there were a few attempting them before Kurt, and Jozef Savodcik landed one deemed UR, but after Kurt did the first ratified one the number really increased. Of course, Elvis Stojko really built on this when he started doing them in combination.

victoriaheidi
01-16-2013, 05:26 PM
Cecilia is one of my all-time favorites, but I voted for Midori. Such an innovator!

gkelly
01-16-2013, 05:45 PM
Was Kwan the first ladies' singles skater to land nine triples cleanly at the World level (SP + FS)?

Probably. It might depend on how you define "cleanly" and "at the World level."

1994-95 was the first year that women were allowed to do two triples in the short program. I think Kwan was the only lady at Worlds who succeeded in doing that and also land seven in the freeskate. At least the lutz in the short program would be negative GOE by today's standards (small deductions by SP rules of the time), but it was landed on one foot and seemed to be fully rotated.

Bonaly also had two triples in the short and seven in the long at Worlds, but she had her hand down on the SP lutz and some of her LP triples were definitely cheated (which was also the case in her 7-triple Euros freeskate; I can't find the Euros SP on youtube).

As for fall internationals, Irina Slutskaya may have been the first to skate a clean short program with two triples. She was certainly the only skater with a clean SP at 1994 Skate America, and she had also won Nebelhorn, the first international where it was legal, although I don't know offhand exactly how she did with the SP jumps or how many she had in the free there. She definitely missed a lot of jumps in the freeskate at Skate America.

orbitz
01-16-2013, 05:56 PM
Linda Fratianne is credited with being the first woman to do two different triples in a LP. It has been stated that Linda made triple jumps mandatory for any serious female skater in the mid-70s.

Who was the first woman to do a triple in a SP? Linda did an impressive 3s-2L in her 77 SP, but I don't know if she was the first to include a triple as the required combo.


Uncle Dick was such a pioneer. He and his coach, Mr. Lussi, invented so many of the skating moves that we see today. Skaters back then had such height and power on their jumps. Just look at Dick's 2A: He did it with an open legs position and with complete revolutions.

gkelly
01-16-2013, 06:11 PM
Linda Fratianne is credited with being the first woman to do two different triples in a LP. It has been stated that Linda made triple jumps mandatory for any serious female skater in the mid-70s.

Who was the first woman to do a triple in a SP? Linda did an impressive 3s-2L in her 77 SP, but I don't know if she was the first to include a triple as the required combo.

Not sure. I think triples were allowed in the ladies' SP starting in the 1974 or 75 season, although I don't know that anyone took advantage of that option. Definitely in 1976 -- the required jump in the combination that year was double flip, and apparently Fratianne and Elena Vodorezeva were planning 2F+3T, although at the Olympics they did 2F+2T like most of the rest of the field.

ioana
01-16-2013, 06:25 PM
Hmm, I almost want to vote once for significant and go with Dick's envelope-pushing jumps since it really changed the sport going forward. And then another time for impressive because everything about Ito's jumps was jaw-dropping. So much height, ice coverage and flow. Went with Dick in the end.

PUNKPRINCESS
01-16-2013, 06:30 PM
It's hard for me to pick between first Triple Axel, first Quad jump, and Midori Ito.

Sasha'sSpins
01-16-2013, 09:17 PM
For me Cecilia because I have read that women were PENALIZED when they showed too much athleticism back in her day-including those jumps which were discouraged for so long for female skaters.

Susan M
01-16-2013, 11:30 PM
I vote for the first triple jump by anybody (Dick Button, 1952, 3 Loop). It moved skating into a whole other era. Once someone had done one triple, it was inevitable skaters would start working on the others and that ladies would do one sooner or later. I don't think the 3A for ladies or quads for men have really made much difference in how skating looks on the ice (and even the most recent OGMs did not do them, and that pretty much defines what is important in skating). l also don't think things like 3-3 combinations made much difference. It has been 20 years or more since Ito's first one and many of the top ladies still aren't doing them.

Now that I think of it, perhaps the first single axel or first double really is the one that totally redefined skating.

bardtoob
01-17-2013, 06:08 AM
For me Cecilia because I have read that women were PENALIZED when they showed too much athleticism back in her day-including those jumps which were discouraged for so long for female skaters.

Yes, which was only amplified by Sonja Henie not having to be so innovative.

Cecelia could have easily resigned herself to 2nd place without having been driven to invent the camel spin, then make it flying and catchfoot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eDLVM-Hjzwc#t=144s) . . . as well as invent the layback spin and develop the arabesque spiral position (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eDLVM-Hjzwc#t=10s), one footed Axel, and 2S. The quality of some of her elements is just shocking (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eDLVM-Hjzwc#t=60s) when considering that she moved around the ice in the Art Deco style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eDLVM-Hjzwc#t=91s).

Akira Andrea
01-17-2013, 06:16 AM
I think that the quadruple jump of Miki Ando is most significant and impressive, because she was only one woman who not only succeeded it the first in 2002 but also continued to challenge it till 2008 of the most recent year under new judging system which was adopted from 2004.
Her quad in 2008 GP final was recognized regrettably as the downgraded quad jump by the judges, but there is not even the woman who was recognized like this except Miki Ando in the history of Ladies in the ISU official competitions under new judging system which was adopted from 2004. Her quad Salchow landed with good flow, of course she did not fall also and did not step out also.

I think that only one is transcendental to all.

The protocol of the free skating in 2008 Grand Prix Final: Miki Ando is 5th place.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf0809/gpf0809_SeniorLadies_FS_Scores.pdf

The video of Miki Ando in the free skating in 2008 GP Final: The first jump is the quad Salchow Jump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2KRWFCiyKA