PDA

View Full Version : Your favorite US nationals ladies champion during 1981-1995



Pages : 1 2 [3] 4

Nomad
01-14-2013, 08:02 PM
I agree that Nancy Kerrigan is not an "artistic" skater, but her presentation was exactly what we wait from a total package. I found her elegant.

I found her as dull and robotic on the ice as she was off the ice.

Vash01
01-14-2013, 08:36 PM
I agree that Nancy Kerrigan is not an "artistic" skater, but her presentation was exactly what we wait from a total package. I found her elegant.

I did not find her elegant at all. She always looked stiff/wooden, and not in a particularly attractive position. No lines. If she was a total package, it was a package of mediocrity, IMO. I did not dislike her, but did not particularly like her either.

orbitz
01-14-2013, 09:08 PM
However she [Chin] blew her big chance to win Worlds in 85

Could've Chin really have won 85 Worlds with a clean LP? Chin skated better than Witt in the SP, IMO, and was still judged only 2nd. Tiffany's LP only had three triples planned - two toes and a sal. Even with better style and a clean skate, I don't think it would've been enough for the judges not to favor Witt. Tiffany really needed to include the 3 flip to put her over the top.

aside: Tiffany's 85 LP has always bothered me in its construction. The last music cut didn't seem to go with the slow piece preceding it at all, and the only jump planned at the end was a 2A-2t, whereas Witt had a 3t and then a 2A to finish. The second half of Tiffany's LP always felt empty to me somehow, especially coming after her beautifully constructed 84 LP.

judgejudy27
01-14-2013, 11:26 PM
Could've Chin really have won 85 Worlds with a clean LP? Chin skated better than Witt in the SP, IMO, and was still judged only 2nd. Tiffany's LP only had three triples planned - two toes and a sal. Even with better style and a clean skate, I don't think it would've been enough for the judges not to favor Witt. Tiffany really needed to include the 3 flip to put her over the top.

aside: Tiffany's 85 LP has always bothered me in its construction. The last music cut didn't seem to go with the slow piece preceding it at all, and the only jump planned at the end was a 2A-2t, whereas Witt had a 3t and then a 2A to finish. The second half of Tiffany's LP always felt empty to me somehow, especially coming after her beautifully constructed 84 LP.

Who knows for sure, she might not have won, but it was her best ever chance IMO, unless one thinks 1986 was a better one but she would have had to beat Witt's LP there too (if she only beat Thomas but not Witt, it actually would have made Witt the new winner), and Witt's 86 LP was stronger than 85 and Chin was no longer U.S Champion. I think she might have only since Witt's marks werent as high as would be expected for her skate, indicating they were saving room, and Chin's marks at the 85 Worlds were very generous for two enormous errors. I wouldnt read anything into the short program result, Witt always won the short program from 84-88 if she skated cleanly.

judgejudy27
01-14-2013, 11:28 PM
Elaine Zayak was a trailblazer- the first skater to land 6 clean triples in a program! I am surprised that she did not get any votes at all.

I agree. She is also the opposite of some of the others, someone who seems MUCH more appreciated decades later than she actually was when she skated.

TheIronLady
01-15-2013, 04:09 AM
[Zayak] is also the opposite of some of the others, someone who seems MUCH more appreciated decades later than she actually was when she skated.

I think that Elaine Zayak's appeal is kind of dated. Her personality is wonderful both today and then, but who wants to see five hundred triple toe loops? She was a great skater, but I think her programs stand up to time better from her comeback in 1994.

Elaine Zayak 1994 US Nationals SP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kOLzvxxm8


I did not find [Kerrigan] elegant at all. She always looked stiff/wooden, and not in a particularly attractive position. No lines. If she was a total package, it was a package of mediocrity, IMO. I did not dislike her, but did not particularly like her either.

Nancy was wonderful, and so far in this thread her detractors have not made a case. She was a lazy and sometimes lousy pro skater, but her competitive programs had eye catching qualities. I believe it takes a sense of ladies skating history to appreciate it, but her skating was interesting and her body was in excellent shape in 94, allowing her to achieve a triple lutz that, were it performed today, the other ladies might envy.

judgejudy27
01-15-2013, 04:22 AM
Kerrigan's triple lutz in the LP at Lillehammer was actually small and not that strong compared to both Baiul and Harding, one of the few valid justifications judges at that event had for giving Bauil higher technical marks which led to her controversial win.

orbitz
01-15-2013, 02:33 PM
The lutz is just one jump in a 4 minutes program. Besides, even if Nancy's 3lutz was judged as small-ish, it was done around the 3 minutes mark. Coupled the lateness of the lutz with the 3t-3t and 3s-2t, Nancy should've had the technical edge over Baiul.

bardtoob
01-15-2013, 03:24 PM
But for the best Nationals single performance, it's definitely Tonya Harding 1991. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. I've watched it so many times over the years, still I find it incredible and exciting.

I wonder how long it will be until there is another LP at US Nationals with both a 3A and a 3/3 . . .

Vash01
01-15-2013, 04:34 PM
I think that Elaine Zayak's appeal is kind of dated. Her personality is wonderful both today and then, but who wants to see five hundred triple toe loops? She was a great skater, but I think her programs stand up to time better from her comeback in 1994.

Elaine Zayak 1994 US Nationals SP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kOLzvxxm8



Nancy was wonderful, and so far in this thread her detractors have not made a case. She was a lazy and sometimes lousy pro skater, but her competitive programs had eye catching qualities. I believe it takes a sense of ladies skating history to appreciate it, but her skating was interesting and her body was in excellent shape in 94, allowing her to achieve a triple lutz that, were it performed today, the other ladies might envy.

You can't forget what Zayak brought to ladies skating (or may be YOU can)- athleticism which was seriously lacking. By your logic, all the skaters of the past, including Ito, Button, Salchow, et al. will have no appeal at all just because everyone is doing what they did in the past (Ito somewhat of an exception in the 3A).

About Nancy, why can't you accept that people have different tastes when it comes to liking/not liking skaters? There is no need to be condescending. Many of us here are very familiar with FS over the years, so you are not the only one that knows the history of ladies skating, and skating in general.

I have seen plenty of posts that stated specifically what they did not like about Nancy's skating. You are only reading what you want to read.

FunnyBut
01-15-2013, 04:52 PM
Regarding Nancy at Lillihammer: I thought the obvious reason to mark her down on the technical mark was the 2flip. The lutz was fine, beautiful position, correct edge , nice flow, performed toward the end of the program, I didn't find it particularily small. Deserving of +1 or +2 under COP IMO. It would be much easier to knock Oksana on any of : 3Flip (2footed), 2Toe (intended to be 3Toe), 2A-2T (her only combination and a too easy one, yet it was messy ). I would have totally given Nancy the technical mark, though I do think Oksana deserved higher
on Artistic Impression.



I wonder how long it will be until there is another LP at US Nationals with both a 3A and a 3/3 . . .

Right! Not to mention Tonya had all the triples, Lutz and Flip on correct/deep edges , and pretty much every jump entered and exited with great speed/flow, and monstrously big. She skated with abandon, flew with great speed down the ice and had powerful spins too.

judgejudy27
01-15-2013, 04:58 PM
You can't forget what Zayak brought to ladies skating (or may be YOU can)- athleticism which was seriously lacking.

Exactly. Because of her doing all those triples the ISU had to demand no more than 2 of any type of triple which led to many women doing 5 or even 6 different type of triples in less than a decade from then. This wouldnt have ever happened as fast without her. For all the flak she gets for all her triple toes, she could also do 3 different type of triples and was very consistent landing all of them, which was rare back then. Her much maligned artistry, which was indeed quite wretched when she debuted in 80 and 81, had also improved greatly by the time of the 84 Olympics, she had a beautiful layback, some nice musical sense, but the judges and USFSA had already dumped her down the drain by then so it didnt matter.

briancoogaert
01-15-2013, 05:35 PM
The lutz is just one jump in a 4 minutes program. Besides, even if Nancy's 3lutz was judged as small-ish, it was done around the 3 minutes mark. Coupled the lateness of the lutz with the 3t-3t and 3s-2t, Nancy should've had the technical edge over Baiul.
Plus the better spins for Kerrigan, plus the better steps and connecting elements. Yes, technically, Nancy Kerrigan was better than Oksana Baiul. ;)

bardtoob
01-15-2013, 06:54 PM
The lutz is just one jump in a 4 minutes program. Besides, even if Nancy's 3lutz was judged as small-ish, it was done around the 3 minutes mark. Coupled the lateness of the lutz with the 3t-3t and 3s-2t, Nancy should've had the technical edge over Baiul.

I thought that is what happened, Nancy had the higher technical marks and Oksana had the higher artistic marks, but the total score was a tie, and Oksana ultimately won by tie-breaker, which was the higher artistic marks for the freeskate.

briancoogaert
01-15-2013, 06:57 PM
I thought that is what happened, Nancy had the higher technical marks and Oksana had the higher artistic marks, but the total score was a tie, and Oksana ultimately won by tie-breaker, which was the high artistic marks for the freeskate.
No, Oksana had better technical marks...Almost 20 years later, I can't understand ! lol
http://winter-olympic-memories.com/html/results/jp_3d/17_lillehammer/17_figure/17_figure_w_ex.htm