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View Full Version : Menshov or Kovtun - Which one would you pick to go to Euros?



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DaiKozOda
01-11-2013, 07:19 PM
It's one of the hot subjects of the season: the russian federation has decided to nominate Maxim Kovtun to the national team for the Euros in Zagreb, leaving Menshov at home.
Kovtun is young and talented but he only finished 5th at the nationals and his experience in seniors is close to zero.
Menshov is a veteran and this season showed solid performances in all the events he took part of. He won the bronze medal at russian nationals.

If the decision was up to you, who would you chose and why?

Macassar88
01-11-2013, 08:12 PM
Kovtun gets my vote. Menshov has had a great season and so has Kovtun. People are saying that Kovtun choked at nationals but he also upped his tech content by a lot going for two quads.

Vash01
01-11-2013, 08:15 PM
I really don't have an opinion because justification can be made for either choice. Now if there was a 3rd skater equally deserving, I might have voted for him. Personally I prefer for any fed to stick to the results at their nationals, but I also realize that feds can pick someone else. Even the USFSA guarantees a spot to only the winner of the nationals.

Maofan7
01-11-2013, 08:18 PM
Kovtun - he is the future post Plushenko

Katarzyna
01-11-2013, 09:08 PM
My favourite :lynch: topic so far this season! :P I voted for Menshov, summarized from some other treads due to the following reasons:

Menshov skated consistently well this season and showed uprising shape. If he could have skated like he did in December at NRW ĖTrophy at Euros, he actually might have taken a medal at Euros (the overall scoring would have been enough if compared with the last three years resultís at Euros) and easily placed top 10 at Worlds. After the start of GPF no one except Hanyu and Fernandez reached a higher TES in the free than Menshov at NRW. So if would have been able to keep it together, he could have placed quite well.

Menshov didnít have a brilliant skate at RN, but despite some boot problems he was still better than Kovtun. And if Fed took into account this seasonís results / scores in addition to the results of Nationals, I think they should have rather favoured Menshov. As comparing placements in seniors to placement in juniors 1:1 is not really objective and in particular not in case the senior skater had to compete against reigning world medalists. :rolleyes:

Itís unfair and immoral to put skates at a disadvantage just because of advanced age and not having an influential coach. :mad:

caseyedwards
01-11-2013, 09:50 PM
All of kovtuns jr success was with shorter lp's. Why not send him to some senior b's so he can do longer lp's. Inthought of makarova and that situation in 2009 2010 where she was a jr and then moved to seniors and then won Russian nationals! She was the winner! Kovtun wasn't even a medalist. And he was not even 4th. He was 5th. Sending him to euros for exposure and testing him against voronov for worlds so they can try to send him to worlds instead of voronov because he is newer and won jrgpf is not strong enough to bump menshov who who did really well all season really but also just flat out better than kovtun. I am just not clear on this urgency to build kovtun up his season. Why and for what purpose? And he can earn it. The Russian fed said he did in jr gp but that should not transfer to senior competitions.

AliasJohnDoe
01-11-2013, 09:54 PM
I'd personally prefer Kovtun. And voted Kovtun. :swoon:

But Menshov finished higher at nationals and earned the spot.

DaiKozOda
01-12-2013, 02:45 AM
I voted for Menshov.
Kovtun is certainly a talent to watchout for the future but Menshov finished ahead of him at nationals and had a great season so far.
Besides shouldn't the principle of sport prevail? The one with better results goes to represent the country at the bigger competitions.
Though situation...

misskarne
01-12-2013, 01:04 PM
Menshov. He's been skating well all season and earned the spot.

Kovtun had an excellent Junior season but that's just that - Junior. Finishing fifth at Russian Nationals is a creditable achievement, but he was beaten by both Menshov and Gachinski (who is not exactly skating well at the moment), in spite of scoring higher PCS than both. Menshov has done more than enough to earn it.

care bear
01-12-2013, 01:07 PM
I voted for Konstantin.

Cherub721
01-12-2013, 02:15 PM
All of kovtuns jr success was with shorter lp's. Why not send him to some senior b's so he can do longer lp's. Inthought of makarova and that situation in 2009 2010 where she was a jr and then moved to seniors and then won Russian nationals! She was the winner! Kovtun wasn't even a medalist. And he was not even 4th. He was 5th. Sending him to euros for exposure and testing him against voronov for worlds so they can try to send him to worlds instead of voronov because he is newer and won jrgpf is not strong enough to bump menshov who who did really well all season really but also just flat out better than kovtun. I am just not clear on this urgency to build kovtun up his season. Why and for what purpose? And he can earn it. The Russian fed said he did in jr gp but that should not transfer to senior competitions.

Maybe they are starting to get really nervous because Plush has to be done after next season. I think Kovtun is being overhyped. I don't see anything special in his skating yet. How many Russian men had success in juniors in the last 10 years and went on to do nothing in the seniors? Grigoriev, Borodulin, Dobrin, Griazev, Shubin, arguably Voronov. The only one to show any potential in seniors has been Gachinsky.

pinky166
01-12-2013, 06:30 PM
I went with Kovtun but it's a toss up. I think they just want to see how he does at Euros in case he beats Voronov in which case they can send him to Worlds. If he bombs, well, then he can just go to JW where he's one of the favorites to win the title anyways. Menshov may get to go to Worlds anyways, in the event that neither Kovtun nor Voronov skate very well at Euros, Kovtun will go to JW and it's likely a skate-off between Menshov, Gatchinski, and Voronov will be held to decide who gets the Worlds spot, and considering the seasons each has had, Menshov probably has decent odds to skate best at a test skate and get the nod for Worlds. I think the Fed is just pushing for Kovtun to be on the Olympic team next season and sending him to Euros is a way for him to gain more exposure, and senior-level international experience.

lala
01-12-2013, 06:34 PM
Menshov

caseyedwards
01-12-2013, 07:19 PM
Maybe they are starting to get really nervous because Plush has to be done after next season. I think Kovtun is being overhyped. I don't see anything special in his skating yet. How many Russian men had success in juniors in the last 10 years and went on to do nothing in the seniors? Grigoriev, Borodulin, Dobrin, Griazev, Shubin, arguably Voronov. The only one to show any potential in seniors has been Gachinsky.

I think they could just wait until that period of time. Post 2014 Olympics. They give kovtun some gps 2013-2014 season.


I went with Kovtun but it's a toss up. I think they just want to see how he does at Euros in case he beats Voronov in which case they can send him to Worlds. If he bombs, well, then he can just go to JW where he's one of the favorites to win the title anyways. Menshov may get to go to Worlds anyways, in the event that neither Kovtun nor Voronov skate very well at Euros, Kovtun will go to JW and it's likely a skate-off between Menshov, Gatchinski, and Voronov will be held to decide who gets the Worlds spot, and considering the seasons each has had, Menshov probably has decent odds to skate best at a test skate and get the nod for Worlds. I think the Fed is just pushing for Kovtun to be on the Olympic team next season and sending him to Euros is a way for him to gain more exposure, and senior-level international experience.

The most likely scenario is one Russian man being plushenko in sochi. Menshov, voronov, kovtun all would have to skate really well and get themselves into the top 10. Last year saw two men unable to crack the top 10. So with one now any man sent is skating for the opportunity to go to the Olympics. If it's kovtun then that's motivation and pressure.

blue_idealist
01-12-2013, 07:42 PM
I voted Menshov since I actually really like his skating and I think he gets the short end of the stick a lot, but I haven't even seen a single program from Kovtun. Now that I'm bitter about Menshov not going, I don't even want to watch Kovtun lol. I also think Menshov's higher finish warrants him being sent regardless if I like him or not.