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mikemba
01-07-2013, 03:39 AM
I know I am very late to the "Sex and the City" scene, but since re-runs (including marathons ) of the series are on TV all the time, I figure there must be folks like me who are now just seeing this show for the first time, or who are very interested in watching re-runs.

I had always had the impression that the women on this show were so indepenedent and that they were models of women who got it all -careers, great friends, and ultimately, great long-term relationships with men. So I was quite surprised to see that the 3 women who got married ended up with men who didn't seem so great:

Harry: Althuogh he seems like a very nice guy at times, his treatment of the conversion was terrible from start to finish: waiting until after he and Charlotte were involved to tell her he'd never marry a non-Jew, his inability to verbalize a single thing about the faith itself that he felt was so important for her to share, and the extraordinarily ignorant way he treated her at their first Sabbath after she had gone through intense study to convert and a week's work to prepare their first Sabbath meal. Sure, Charlotte said some mean things to him that night, but this was after he had been so rude to her.

Steve: In some ways, he's nice, too, but I don't hink he contributed a single thing to their relationship until they were married. He moved into her apartment, where she did all the housework. He refused to turn his cartoons down when she was trying to work at home; it was his idea for them to get a dog and Miranda got stuck caring for it. He never dressed up for dressy events. Heck, he didn't even engage in proper hygiene, which Miranda learned after washing his whites. Not to mention the affair.

Interesting, that for all their men's shortcomings. Miranda and Charlotte each took full blame for the breakups with Steve and Harry prior to their ultimate marriages.

John (Big) - His emotional distance and his repeated "pull Carrie in then push her away" tactics lasted all the way from the 1st season to the 2nd movie.

BTW, Samantha and Smith was my favorite relationship of all. I just loved how deep he turned out to be, and how their relationship that started out so frivolous grew into meaningful love. The other 3 men could take notes from young Smith about how to be a loving, kind, thoughtful companion.

Any thougts?

BigB08822
01-07-2013, 06:32 AM
I think it is important to remember that the show comes from the point of view of Carrie Bradshaw who gets all her information from her friends or sees it through her own eyes which surely have a bias towards her friends. If the same stories were told from the mens point of view we would have probably seen different things.

jenny12
01-07-2013, 06:21 PM
I never thought Carrie was much of a prize either, so maybe it went both ways.

maatTheViking
01-07-2013, 06:28 PM
II had always had the impression that the women on this show were so indepenedent and that they were models of women who got it all -careers, great friends, and ultimately, great long-term relationships with men. So I was quite surprised to see that the 3 women who got married ended up with men who didn't seem so great:





Well, my main gripe with the show is that I think it is strange that it seems to scoff of non-single women (the Carrie goes to a baby shower in suburbs episode), but all they do is chase husbands. I think that Samantha is the only one who is shown as a really strong, independent woman. Then rest of them made me happy to live in suburbs with my husband being happily married early in my life... it felt wrong that the show should do that, instead of make me long for having stayed single a little longer ;).

My other gripe is Carrie ending up with Big. He is the most annoying guy on television. I loved the French artist (and Aiden too) - he enabled her to have her own life, her own success, while he had his. Those scenes in France where she is oh so a alone because she is a foreign city was sooo blah blah --- not showing any independence at all. If the guy is busy with his shows, then either insert your self, or go sight see without him! I have no idea why a foreign language would turn her into a simpering attachment wanting to hang off his arm! In fact the ending of the show really turned me off it in general - and there are many episodes I loved.

AliasJohnDoe
01-07-2013, 06:33 PM
You'll also get to see her early boyfriends in "The Carrie Diaries" which starts on the CW Monday, 1/14/2013: :D
http://www.cwtv.com/shows/the-carrie-diaries

mikemba
01-07-2013, 07:21 PM
I think it is important to remember that the show comes from the point of view of Carrie Bradshaw who gets all her information from her friends or sees it through her own eyes which surely have a bias towards her friends. If the same stories were told from the mens point of view we would have probably seen different things.

Very interesting, but I thought that despite being narrated by Carrie, when you saw for example, Charlotte with Harry, you weren't at that time seeing Carrie's interpretation of Charlotte's recollection of Charlotte and Harry, but what "actually" happened with Charlotte and Harry. So all those gross habits of his such as talking with his mouth full or leaving wet teabags all over the apartment were "truths" about Harry.

mikemba
01-07-2013, 07:26 PM
I never thought Carrie was much of a prize either, so maybe it went both ways.

I agree - she wasn't. But I bet my bank account that if this show had been about 4 male friends, all the men who married would have married "up" in looks, personality, and contribution to the relationship. But with Sex and the City, the 3 married women all seemed to marry "down" as far as giving to the relationship (with 2 of the 3 marrying way down in looks, not that that's the most important thing by any means. Charlotte married a man who initially repulsed her physically, something that I have never seen a male protagonist do.)

Why couldn't at least 2 of the 3 marry a really great (I'm back to talking personality/giving to the relationship, not looks) guy, rather than none of them?

AliasJohnDoe
01-07-2013, 07:38 PM
Very interesting, but I thought that despite being narrated by Carrie, when you saw for example, Charlotte with Harry, you weren't at that time seeing Carrie's interpretation of Charlotte's recollection of Charlotte and Harry, but what "actually" happened with Charlotte and Harry. So all those gross habits of his such as talking with his mouth full or leaving wet teabags all over the apartment were "truths" about Harry.

Don't forget the bad habit Harry had of sitting on the "white" sofa/furniture nude. Skid marks!!!! ewwww :drama:

I would have thrown him and his bare ass out the penthouse window.

mikemba
01-07-2013, 07:52 PM
That's right! Yuck!

And thanks for the Carrie Diaries info.

Artemis@BC
01-07-2013, 08:15 PM
I don't disagree.

However I've never thought of Sex & the City as anything more than entertaining fluff. Definitely not a model of feminist though, and certainly not any kind of relationship advice for me or anyone I know!

Alex Forrest
01-07-2013, 08:54 PM
What I found most interesting with SATC was that I totally related to Samantha, Charlotte, and Miranda. I have a bit of Samantha and Charlotte in me, but I'm mostly Miranda. And then we have Carrie who is positively the nastiest, cheatiest, self-involved, stupidest, most disgusting pulse in Manhattan. I have no idea why anyone would get close to Carrie, she's a total see you next Tuesday.

Funny how everyone ended up with a man, and Carrie was still struggling with her philandering rich boyfriend. They deserved each other. How many STDs did she get from that louse is a wonder, or how many he got from her. Not feeling any Carrie love. She is nasty. And she was the star of the show, incredibly.

Wiery
01-07-2013, 09:13 PM
I have the dvds, and the later seasons have Michael Patrick King doing voice-over commentary in a few of the episodes. He stated that the SATC screenwriters (who are mostly single, successful, women) were well aware of the paucity of relationship choices for many successful women in New York (and everywhere), and the flawed men in the series reflect their own life experiences. I've enjoyed MPK's director commentary even more than the dialogue, since it tells the story behind the story. I haven't watched the episodes in years, but if MPK came out with director commentary for all the episodes of SATC, I would re-purchase the dvds just to hear the guy talk!

BTW, I was engaged to a man who was raised as an Orthodox Jew. He did almost all the things Harry did. He never wanted me to convert so we could create a Jewish family, but because he wanted to tell his father he married a Jew. :lol: This was many years before SATC came out, when I saw these episodes, I laughed and laughed because they were so right on. BTW, I ditched the guy and kept the Jewish faith. ;)

kwanfan1818
01-07-2013, 09:57 PM
Were the women prizes?


Don't forget the bad habit Harry had of sitting on the "white" sofa/furniture nude. Skid marks!!!! ewwww :drama:

I would have thrown him and his bare ass out the penthouse window.
Charlotte wasn't objecting to skid marks; I think that was Steve's boxers: she was objecting to his naked balls touching the white sofa. The writers tied it in with him leaving tea bags on tables, counters, etc., thus all of the tea bag jokes.

I didn't think Steve was that bad: he was a child in the beginning, and after Miranda dumped him, he got his act together when he went in to co-own the bar. He was always going to be more casual and laid back than Miranda, and there was a big class gulf between them. There were few times he put Miranda on the spot and asked her to look at herself or take someone else into consideration -- for her family in a move to Brooklyn, and to put down her cell phone when they went on their honeymoon -- but I can't remember when he asked her to change. Compare the way she behaved around Steve versus how she would turn demure and fake around the other men she dated. She even said in the "Number 2" episode that she used the cruise line's general toilets when she had to, rather than using the bathroom she shared with her boyfriend. He might not be anyone's idea of prince or many woman's ideal of a boyfriend, but he was, for the most part, nice to her.

I don't think Harry ever considered that Charlotte would want to marry him. He treated her very nicely on the whole, and he eventually got his head on straight, while she changed her priorities for the better.

How much kinder could anyone have been to Samantha as in the episode where she dumped Smith at Richard's opening and went upstairs to shag Richard, and when she came back a train wreck, Smith, who had been in AA, put his ego aside and treated it like she had relapsed into addiction and had the confidence in that she'd get back on her feet again? "Sex and the City" had it's stupidity going, but that was one of the most impressive things I've seen anyone do on TV.

In a show with four women, that three of them ended up with nice men who treated them well, is pretty remarkable.

Big to me was never a believable character, because in the beginning, they showed that he was supposed to be from an uber-WASP family, making him like the D'arcy to Miranda's Bennet's. I don't think he came across more than a wealthier version of his Law and Order character. I thought Carrie was a horror show for most of her reign, but I thought it was understandable how she reacted in Paris: it's not always obvious immediately how much a person loses by moving away from a place and a group, and no amount of awe and giddiness about Paris takes that away, especially when trying to establish an everyday life. It's one thing to be a tourist or celebrity in a place, and another to make a life in another culture. One of the worst things about the show was how they made Baryshnikov's character, "The Russian," have to be so much worse than Big in order for anyone to care about the ending; they turned him into a passive-aggressive, "I'll sit in the darkness of my insecure soul while you go to your own dinner with people for whom you are the creative center of attention, if I don't slit my wrists before then." They couldn't just leave it with her making a decision that she really wanted to be home, regardless of Big and The Russian's relative faults and virtues.

I agree that Carrie and Big deserved each other.

avivadawn
01-08-2013, 04:38 AM
SATC is my favorite television show ever. I own all of the seasons (except for season 5, of which I own maybe half) either from buying them on Itunes or on DVD. It's the show that I will defend until hell freezeth overon the penalty of death.

Memo: Except for Carrie and Big. Both of whom I despised.

Samantha was nothing, if not true to herself. To be honest while I may not have seen her behavior as something to emulate, I appreciated her refreshing "I'll live how I like" attitude. Smith was a sweetheart and I'm glad that they remained friends after they broke up in the first film.

I loved Harry more than any man on that show: he was flawed, and although he f'ed up big time with that entire fight after Charlotte converted....he more than made up for it later. I'd marry a Harry in a heartbeat. Charlotte was also my favorite character on the show, followed by Harry, Stanford and Smith in that order.

Steve and Miranda needed to grow up before they finally worked everything out and lived as a contented family. Sure, it took five seasons and a movie for that to happen....but it was worth the wait.

BigB08822
01-08-2013, 04:48 AM
One thing I loved about Samantha was her attitude about being herself AND having no shame in it. If she did something then she was more than happy to own up to it and say "yes, I did that and I own it." I feel like that is something I have worked at doing in my own life and sometimes I wonder if it stemmed from my obsession with SATC many years ago. lol