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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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PDilemma
12-19-2012, 02:18 AM
This is the first time I was even aware of this service for dealing with grief and trauma.. I am aware of pet therapy in general but really had no idea of this particular skill.. what a perfect choice for children especially in putting a smile on their face :)

Not necessarily. I was terrified of large dogs as a primary school age child. I would love to know if the people handle these dogs are prepared to understand that the presence of a large dog, docile and quiet as they are trained to be, is the last thing that may calm some children. I honestly would still find someone expecting me to be comforted by an animal I would prefer to just not be around to be adding insult to injury.

rfisher
12-19-2012, 02:21 AM
Not necessarily. I was terrified of large dogs as a primary school age child. I would love to know if the people handle these dogs are prepared to understand that the presence of a large dog, docile and quiet as they are trained to be, is the last thing that may calm some children. I honestly would still find someone expecting me to be comforted by an animal I would prefer to just not be around to be adding insult to injury.


Both and handlers and the dogs are very well trained.

Lacey
12-19-2012, 02:30 AM
So some of my grandchildren go to elementary school in NC, 5th and 3rd grades. They were both home sick today. Principal sent an email that some kid brought a BB gun to show to his friend, police were called, etc. etc. GAH.

Anita18
12-19-2012, 02:38 AM
I thought it was more interesting--and possibly significant, if true--that he had a condition that didn't allow him to feel pain.

But I keep remembering how many, many incorrect things and specious speculation were published and broadcast after Columbine, and how many of those myths persist to this day (I've even read some in this thread) and I try to remember that it will probably be years before anyone has a good, solid theory about what really went on here.
But such people are still able to feel empathy, I would think. And sadness. Being immune to physical pain doesn't protect you from emotional trauma.

Prancer
12-19-2012, 03:20 AM
Not necessarily. I was terrified of large dogs as a primary school age child. I would love to know if the people handle these dogs are prepared to understand that the presence of a large dog, docile and quiet as they are trained to be, is the last thing that may calm some children. I honestly would still find someone expecting me to be comforted by an animal I would prefer to just not be around to be adding insult to injury.

My daughter and I used to volunteer as dog socializers for a therapy dog program and yes, everyone is very aware that some people are frightened of large dogs and they know how to deal with it. Golden retrievers are very common in such programs, but I would be surprised if they didn't have some smaller dogs with them as well.


But such people are still able to feel empathy, I would think. And sadness. Being immune to physical pain doesn't protect you from emotional trauma.

Yes, Anita, that would generally be true. But he clearly had other problems as well. If it's true that he had some form of autism and thus struggled with human emotion, how much more of a struggle must it have been to live with not being able to feel physical sensation as well?

PDilemma
12-19-2012, 03:34 AM
My daughter and I used to volunteer as dog socializers for a therapy dog program and yes, everyone is very aware that some people are frightened of large dogs and they know how to deal with it. Golden retrievers are very common in such programs, but I would be surprised if they didn't have some smaller dogs with them as well.




I would not want dogs of any size brought to comfort or console me. I know that Americans think dogs are the greatest thing in the universe for absolutely everything, but there are still a few people out there who just don't want them around and would not find their presence at all helpful. There are also those that are allergic.

Anita18
12-19-2012, 03:35 AM
Yes, Anita, that would generally be true. But he clearly had other problems as well. If it's true that he had some form of autism and thus struggled with human emotion, how much more of a struggle must it have been to live with not being able to feel physical sensation as well?
People with congenital analgesia usually have to be protected from themselves, yes, but people around them don't seem to need protection from them. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18713585) They do seem to understand that other people feel physical distress (what we would call pain) even if they can't.

And if the shooter really did lack the ability to feel pain both physically and emotionally....then his mother looks to be even more irresponsible teaching him how to shoot a gun. Just what sort of limits would he have if other people's distress didn't register to him, and he didn't feel pain so he couldn't even empathize with them?

Prancer
12-19-2012, 03:47 AM
I would not want dogs of any size brought to comfort or console me. I know that Americans think dogs are the greatest thing in the universe for absolutely everything, but there are still a few people out there who just don't want them around and would not find their presence at all helpful. There are also those that are allergic.

Yes, PDillemma, and is anyone more aware of things like children's fears and allergies than schoolteachers?

I think we can safely assume that none of these things were left unconsidered and that those whose suffering might have been increased by contact with a dog were not required to be involved. That is generally the way things work.


People with congenital analgesia usually have to be protected from themselves, yes, but people around them don't seem to need protection from them. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18713585) They do seem to understand that other people feel physical distress (what we would call pain) even if they can't.

Yes, Anita. As I said before, HE CLEARLY HAD OTHER ISSUES AS WELL, and I think it is the conjunction of those issues that might be significant.

overedge
12-19-2012, 04:00 AM
I've read that he had been said to have Asperger's but how do you tell that the symptoms described in the media are Asperger's? They seem like they could be a lot of different things and we don't know enough beyond pretty vague descriptions it seems to me.

I read a story in the newspaper today that started out by saying "some sources" (unidentified) suggested that the killer had Asperger's. The story then had quotes from four different psychologists essentially saying that there was no evidence they knew of that he was diagnosed as such, and even if he was, the chances that it had anything to do with his actions were pretty much zero.

IMHO the editor who let that non-story get into print made a really bad judgement call.

Anita18
12-19-2012, 04:09 AM
Yes, Anita. As I said before, HE CLEARLY HAD OTHER ISSUES AS WELL, and I think it is the conjunction of those issues that might be significant.
I didn't disagree, I was just restating your points and taking them further. :P

Do you think this puts more responsibility on his mother for what happened to him? I mean, obviously she didn't pull the trigger, but the more that comes out (which is unvetted, honestly), the more I'm :duh: with her decision to familiarize him with guns.

Prancer
12-19-2012, 04:18 AM
I didn't disagree, I was just restating your points and taking them further. :P

I guess it only looked like you were refuting a point I never made, nor intended to make


Do you think this puts more responsibility on his mother for what happened to him? I mean, obviously she didn't pull the trigger, but the more that comes out (which is unvetted, honestly), the more I'm :duh: with her decision to familiarize him with guns.

I keep remembering how many, many incorrect things and specious speculation were published and broadcast after Columbine, and how many of those myths persist to this day (I've even read some in this thread) and I try to remember that it will probably be years before anyone has a good, solid theory about what really went on here.

mkats
12-19-2012, 05:28 AM
Dear god, you have got to be kidding me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250160/West-Kearns-Elementary-Student-gun-classmate-s-head-parents-encouraged-protection.html?ICO=most_read_module


Police say an 11-year-old boy pulled a .22-caliber handgun on an elementary school classmate on Monday after his parents allegedly encouraged him to carry it for protection after last week's shooting in Connecticut.

manhn
12-19-2012, 05:32 AM
An NBC article indicates that the parents did not have anything to do with this (although, WTH is up with the extended family member?!?!):

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/18/15997124-sixth-grader-in-utah-brings-gun-to-school-to-avoid-connecticut-style-attack-district-spokesman-says?lite


Horsley said the student obtained the gun at home from an extended family member who moved out of the family’s house last week.

Previous reports indicated that the student claimed his parents told him to bring the gun to school for protection. Horsley said those claims are not accurate and said the parents have been "very cooperative.”

AragornElessar
12-19-2012, 07:12 AM
I missed AC360 earlier tonight and since I haven't been able to get to sleep, decided to put it on and am watching it now. The interview he did w/Grace McDonnell's parents had me sobbing by the end. Especially about how due to her love of Art, they decided even before going to the Funeral Home to bring along a bunch of Sharpies w/them and the white coffin they saw when they entered that room and in her Mom's words, "Pulled the floor out from underneath them."...

By the time they left, as her Mom said, it was Grace. She loved the Peace Sign, so they drew those on it, and going to the beach and her Art work, how much she loved Hawaii and also the NY Yankees. They put every single good memory and symbol Grace loved on all over that coffin. They also took one of Grace's favorite drawings she really loved and was proud of and made two copies of it. One was given to President Obama Sunday night when he met w/the Families and he told them he will treasure it. The other copy was given to Anderson and he said it was getting framed ASAP and put where he can see it everyday to remember Grace and the other Children and their Teachers as well.

The other story he told tonight was a badly needed reminder of just how good people and/or organizations really are. The cousin of one of the two boys who were laid to rest on Monday wanted to put a note into the coffin to let him know how much he was loved. The problem though? They're in Seattle and would not be able to make it to Newtown in time for the funeral. His Mom turned to Twitter for help to see if there was anyway to get their notes across the Country in time.

JetBlue (I think that's the right airline) tweeted her back w/a phone number for her to call in order to give someone directions to where they could meet up in order for her to hand them not only the notes, but also anything else they wanted to send to their extended Family in Newtown to try and help them right now. After that, that employee made a beeline for the airport and that person was on their way to the nearest airport to Newtown where this airline has service and those notes and the overall package was there in time to be placed inside the casket.

These are the healing stories we so badly need right now to hear and kudos to JetBlue for doing this!!

kwanfan1818
12-19-2012, 08:43 AM
Didn't the news reports say that Sandy Hook had previously had drills for how to deal with a situation like this? The teachers were prepared to try to hide their students because of that, or more might have been killed.

Its good that schools are prepared. Its bad that they have to be.
One of the earlier reports -- who knows how credible it is -- said that there were drills and procedures in place, but that one of the keys was having a specific announcement over the intercom system, and that the intercom was on when the person who was supposed to make the announcement was shot. However, because the attack and reactions were audible, a lot of the teachers figured out what was happening and were able to put their plans into action.

I don't think that many kids would have remained that quiet in hiding for so long if there hadn't been preparation and a plan.


But you can join the military at 18!
That's probably considered "well-regulated."



What seemed rather disconcerting to me was that his mother had reportedly taught Adam to shoot a rifle when he was 9 years old. Unless his social/emotion/behavioral problems developed when he was a bit older, it seems like a very questionable course of action. However, if she really was a true gun lover, I suppose she thought of it as a way to bond with her son. :(
All of the hunters but one I know were taught to use rifles when they were very young by their parents or family members, usually starting with a 22. Using a gun and caring for it was passed down, like fishing, from generation to generation. The exception was a man whose family had applied to leave the Soviet Union, and after long harassment, they were allowed to emigrate. He went deer stalking -- he said the regulations for cleaning and removing dead deer from state parks were too much of a hassle to make shooting them (for the meat) worthwhile -- but the reason he had guns was in case he needed to protect himself from the government.