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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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AnnieD
12-16-2012, 07:01 PM
I teach high school and we have been trained several times about what to do in this situation. I, like Prancer, map out what to do in several different events. I'm not gonna fall apart about it, though, and I don't need my hand held by a counselor, though if some of my colleagues do, that's fine. But I think if you are going to become a teacher, this is something you know is a possibility, though a rare one.

Though I must say, the fact that it happened in an elementary school is shocking. One usually thinks of mass shootings happening in high schools.

I'm a teacher too and had a long discussion today with a friend who also teaches with me about what we'd do in the same situation. I've found this incident quite upsetting both because it reminded me of Dunblane which was very close to home for me, and also because of my position as a teacher. I teach at a primary school and as well as the gun laws changing here after Dunblane the other thing which was addressed was safety in terms of access to schools. All the doors to our buildings are now locked during the day and if someone wants to access the building they have to buzz reception. We were talking about how lax we've become in terms of this though; anyone could in essence say to reception they're a parent coming in to drop off a lunchbox or a forgotten piece of homework and gain access to the school. We also discussed how even though such an incident took place only about 20 miles away from us, we've never discussed escape plans in case of such an event. We ended up talking about how we'd take our kids out through fire exits and running to the high school round the corner but we've never had official training or guidelines on what to do.

It's an absolutely shocking, horrifying event and my heart goes out to all the people in the community, the poor children, their families and the teachers who were so brave trying to protect their kids. I just can't even imagine what they must have went through; it makes me want to give all my kids a big hug on Monday and appreciate how lucky I am to have them all.

Vash01
12-16-2012, 07:02 PM
Did anyone see Saturday Night Live last night? I thought they handled it beautifully - instead of the usual skit to open the show, they had a children's choir singing Silent Night. After several verses, they went quiet, then they all shouted the signature "Live from New York, it's Saturday night!!" together and the opening credits ran, followed by the show as planned (including a very funny skit about the Duchess of Cambridge's pregnancy, with no reference to the prank call or death of the nurse).

I teared up as the kids sang, and thought it was a lovely, appropriate tribute.

I did not watch SNL, but CNN replayed some of it this morning. It was beautifully done and deeply moving. I teared up while watching, particularly when the names and pictures of the children were shown.

ETA: Peter Lanza, father of the killer has issued this statement

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15/our-hearts-go-out-to-victims-families-newtown-gunmans-father-says/?hpt=hp_t1

Lacey
12-16-2012, 07:20 PM
With regard to building safety, I think I heard/read that he shot his way into the building by blowing out the glass surround to the door, (saw pictures of destroyed glass), then just walked in.

Other than being disturbed by the press interviewing students, leave those poor surviving children alone, what also bothered me was another mother talking on television about the perpetrator's mother and her mothering skills as being, well poor, hadn't seen her in years but she was strict, and he was odd, etc, etc. Leave her alone, who are you to say that you knew her, I am sure she tried her best in what must have been a tragic life even before it ended, she's dead and can't defend herself or explain her son's actions. There but for the grace of luck and a higher power, possibly go each and everyone of us.

duane
12-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Leave her alone, who are you to say that you knew her, I am sure she tried her best in what must have been a tragic life even before it ended, she's dead and can't defend herself or explain her son's actions.
Perhaps, but when you have all these murdered 6 and 7 year olds, the mother of the killer and owner of the weapons used is not going to gain much sympathy from some, and her decisions will be questioned by others.

bek
12-16-2012, 08:56 PM
Perhaps, but when you have all these murdered 6 and 7 year olds, the mother of the killer and owner of the weapons used is not going to gain much sympathy from some, and her decisions will be questioned by others.

If those were her guns, and I question that? Than I do take issue with that. However other than the gun issue what exactly could be done? Its not like she could put him away or force him to get treatment. Her son was mentally imbalanced. I am reminded of the Virginia Tech parents who really did try get their son help. But whose hands got tied especially when he got over 18. I thought that the article someone earlier in this thread discussed well how society fails the mentally ill and their parents have little recourses for help.

Susan1
12-16-2012, 09:17 PM
Thoughts (without reposting specific threads)............

Re the t.v. reporting mistakes. I, too, have been watching news reports for two days now and it is frustrating that they keep spitting out the wrong information. That is what happens in this age of instant gratification. "We want to know and we want to know now" and "We were the first to report it". When the "news" said that she was a teacher there, I think they were just trying to come up with a logical reason why some monster would shoot up a school. And there is no logical reason here. What would we have them do, tell the hundreds of reporters gathered on the field 24/7 that they don't know anything and they should all go home.

They released Ryan's name because his brother had his ID. The poor guy had to post on his Facebook page that it wasn't him. Well, yeah, the one thing the news got right in a timely manner was that the shooter was dead inside the school. But all it takes is one person tweeting, texting, facebooking, whatevering a thought to one person and all of a sudden thousands of people are repeating it to someone else as if it's gospel.

There was a press conference earlier that people on social media were doing basically illegal things, perpetrating misinformation and impersonating officials. That's what this world has come to.

I posted a message about the grandmother of one of the little girls after I got an email from my church's prayer circle Friday. I did not use any names. And it was right in the middle of the gun discussion on this thread. Or maybe it was mental illness. Maybe those should be under a different category.

But while we are on the subject (ha).....why is something that is used to kill people and animals considered a sport? Target practice? Why? In case a stray can or bottle or whatever people "practice" shooting jumps out at you? Find a different hobby. (Only time I ever shot a BB gun, I hit the Pepsi can "right between the eyes". That was enough for me. The kids had the BB gun taken away when they popped a hole in the laundry room window!!!!!!!) Hunt defenseless animals with a bow and arrow.

Is this going to make people who have guns get rid of them because someone in their family or a friend might go off the deep end and shoot them? Or is everybody going to run out and buy a gun in case there is ever the slightest chance of someone else with a gun threatening them? Are they going to put armed guards in front of all schools? What happens if some guy gets lost and stops at a school to ask directions and gets blown away? People don't need guns.

Didn't the second amendment have to do with the right to bear arms to defend the country against intruders or something? It's sort of been lost in translation over the years. If no one had guns, you would not have to defend yourself against another gun. Sorry, this just winds me up.

All the news channels reporting everything over and over again. Why are they still "investigating" where the guns were made, etc. We know the who, what, where, when and how of everything, but they have to keep bombarding us with all the expert opinions on everything. And interviewing these poor kids. How can the parents allow that? What they saw and how they feel is not anyone's business. They don't need witnesses to solve this crime. Let them be.

Thank you for letting me vent. I'm just worn out and terribly sad........

Eden
12-16-2012, 09:21 PM
First funeral for Newtown shooting victim is set for tomorrow in Fairfield, CT.
Noah Pozner's (6) funeral is scheduled for 1 p.m. at the Abraham L. Green & Son Funeral Home.
According to the Jewish tradition is it customed to sit shiva (a week-long mourning period for first-degree relatives) after the burial.

Noah's twin sister, Arielle, survived the shooting because she was in a different 1st grade class.


On a different note:
As a mother to Autistic child, I find it very hard to believe that the Connecticut murderer suffered from Asperger (a form of high-function Autism).
To me it looks more like some sort of Paranoia-Paranoid Personality Disorder or some other form of mental-personality disorder rather than Asperger.
While people with Autism can harm themselfs (by not being aware what is dangerous) they are defenetly not dangerous to the society.

Vash01
12-16-2012, 09:51 PM
Thoughts (without reposting specific threads)............


But while we are on the subject (ha).....why is something that is used to kill people and animals considered a sport? Target practice? Why? In case a stray can or bottle or whatever people "practice" shooting jumps out at you? Find a different hobby. (Only time I ever shot a BB gun, I hit the Pepsi can "right between the eyes". That was enough for me. The kids had the BB gun taken away when they popped a hole in the laundry room window!!!!!!!) Hunt defenseless animals with a bow and arrow.


Didn't the second amendment have to do with the right to bear arms to defend the country against intruders or something? It's sort of been lost in translation over the years. If no one had guns, you would not have to defend yourself against another gun. Sorry, this just winds me up.


Thank you for letting me vent. I'm just worn out and terribly sad........

We are all very upset right now, and worn out, so it's OK that you felt the need to vent.

I too hate the idea of killing animals for sport. The shooting practice needs to be for those undergoing military or law enforcement people, and for a few people in the rural, isolated areas.

About the second amendment, CNN showed the actual wording. The right to bear arms amendment (2nd) includes "Controlled militia" to defend against tyrannical government (I think one of the posters also posted it). People conveniently use only "the right to bear arms" and forget the rest. How many tyrannical governments have we had in the USA? None. If there happens to be one in the modern times, the govt has nuclear weapons while the citizens have guns and assault weapons, so theoretically speaking these arms not going to protect them. Instead, people are using them against other people, and not against a tyrannical govt. We have a democratic process. While it is not perfect, we don't need arms to protect ourselves. We have elections and in a democracy we have to live with the outcomes of those elections. IMO there is no need for a controlled militia to protect us against our own government. A person certainly should have the right to defend himself, but if there are no guns, there are fewer weapons to defend against.

judiz
12-16-2012, 09:56 PM
I know the police are busy looking for a motive but I'm wondering if the shooter chose the classroom based on location or if he had a specific classroom in mind. I'm guessing the teacher in the room where all the children died was also killed, most likely trying to shield her students from the gunfire. The news reports haven't mentioned who the teacher of the children was, we do know the other first grade teacher died saving the lives of all her students.

PDilemma
12-16-2012, 09:58 PM
The phrase in the Second Amendment is "a well-regulated militia". The infant United States did not have a standing army. Essentially, the militia referenced was a kind of reserve army or national guard where male citizens were expected to stand ready to defend the nation (not themselves against it) if necessary and to have the necessary weapons.

The notion that the founders intended us to be armed to stage coups against the government is a fiction. They had intentionally constructed a flexible Constitution (that can be amended unlike its predecessor which was nearly impossible to amend) with checks and balances to curb the power of any branch of the federal government. Jefferson's (perhaps hyperbolic) quote aside, their intent was a government that could stand the test of time and change through peaceful means.

Sylvia
12-16-2012, 10:16 PM
I'm guessing the teacher in the room where all the children died was also killed, most likely trying to shield her students from the gunfire. The news reports haven't mentioned who the teacher of the children was,
Lauren Rousseau was the newly hired permanent substitute teacher of that 1st grade class, according to this Hartford Courant article: http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-timeline-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215,0,1878564.story

The first classroom that Lanza reached was that of teacher Kaitlin Roig. Alarmed by the gunfire, she had hidden her students in a bathroom and closed her classroom door. For reasons that could not be explained Saturday, Lanza passed by Roig's classroom.

The classroom he chose to enter was substitute teacher Lauren Rousseau's, where he proceeded to systematically shoot everyone inside — the 14 children who investigators believe were huddled and clutching one another in fear, Rousseau and a special education teacher who happened to be in the room. Rousseau was filling in for the regular teacher, who was out on maternity leave. Rousseau had been teaching at the school for six weeks.

"There were 14 coats hanging there and 14 bodies. He killed them all," said a law enforcement officer involved in the case.

Lanza next arrived at teacher Victoria Soto's classroom. Soto is believed to have hidden her 6- and 7-year old students in a classroom closet. When Lanza demanded to know where the children were, Soto tried to divert him to the other end of the school by saying that her students were in the auditorium.

But six of Soto's students tried to flee. Lanza shot them, Soto and another teacher who was in the room. Later, in their search for survivors, police found the remaining seven of Soto's students still hiding in the closet. They told the police what had happened.

The two teacher's aides who were killed were Mary Anne Murphy [should be Anne Marie Murphy] and Rachel Davino [D'Avino is the correct spelling]. It was unclear which aide was in which room when they were killed.
ETA that the CT State Police have NOT yet officially confirmed any of the details of the crime scene, AFAIK.

numbers123
12-16-2012, 10:23 PM
One of the tragedies that seems to get over looked by the sadness/grief/mourning/outrage of the killing of the innocent children is also the destruction of the shooter's family's name/structure. I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist so can not even begin to say whether or not the killer had a mental illness. We can assume he did because we cannot make sense of the actions. We can as a group condemn the mother, who lost her life, as one who did/should/why had guns in the house. We don't know the reason why she did. We don't know why he did what he did. What I can assume is the shooter was an angry person, whether a chronically angry man or a flash in the pan angry.

I can imagine this case scenario about why it might have happened:

I can imagine that the man wasn't only angry with his mother but with his brother. Probably couldn't process or feel that killing his mother would be destruction enough, that he had to do something that would hurt her even more and somehow used something his mother liked/loved as another punishment for her, the school and kindergarten children. I can imagine that he was so angry with his brother, that in order to get even or make him feel as much pain as he (Adam) felt, he would make the world believe his brother (Ryan) committed that punishment. And doing so, would hurt his mother even more, that perhaps as Adam might see it, making a favored brother the evil person to the whole world. I don't know, I suspect that we will never know why he committed such a violent act.

What I am fairly certain about: there are 20 sets of parents (at least more if blended families are involved), 40 sets of grandparents (maybe more), scores of aunts, uncles, cousins, friends who are so deeply hurting, that unless you have experienced the murder of your child or grandchild, we can not fathom the depth of their pain. There are even more people who are mourning the loss of their adults in their lives - people we often forget in the horror of children dying that there horror is in the fact that there were also adults killed.

We have a brother, who will forever have his named linked to the "possible shooter" status who lost his mother and his brother to violence. We have a father of a man who committed an unthinkable act of violence, who will forever have his name linked to the crime and regardless of what people espouse about not the parent's fault, will have enough people blaming him for the actions of his son. Lest us forget, that at some time in that family's existence, there are probably happy memories of the shooter and of the mother. How to reconcile those memories of happiness or fun with the memories of an act that is so indescribably awful that we can not wrap our heads/arms/hearts around it.

victoriajh
12-16-2012, 11:24 PM
I'm a teacher too and had a long discussion today with a friend who also teaches with me about what we'd do in the same situation. I've found this incident quite upsetting both because it reminded me of Dunblane which was very close to home for me, and also because of my position as a teacher. I teach at a primary school and as well as the gun laws changing here after Dunblane the other thing which was addressed was safety in terms of access to schools. All the doors to our buildings are now locked during the day and if someone wants to access the building they have to buzz reception. We were talking about how lax we've become in terms of this though; anyone could in essence say to reception they're a parent coming in to drop off a lunchbox or a forgotten piece of homework and gain access to the school. We also discussed how even though such an incident took place only about 20 miles away from us, we've never discussed escape plans in case of such an event. We ended up talking about how we'd take our kids out through fire exits and running to the high school round the corner but we've never had official training or guidelines on what to do.

It's an absolutely shocking, horrifying event and my heart goes out to all the people in the community, the poor children, their families and the teachers who were so brave trying to protect their kids. I just can't even imagine what they must have went through; it makes me want to give all my kids a big hug on Monday and appreciate how lucky I am to have them all.
It's so sad that as a teacher this type of incident is on your radar...how does one possibly prepare for this? I don't know I have so much respect for th teachers that thought so quickly and saved children's lives by doing so. I want to keep focussing on them and not the killer ( whose name I refuse to say or type out)

AragornElessar
12-17-2012, 12:12 AM
Entire post...

Beautifully said and dead on too. Thank you!!


:( Seeing the names, and the ages of those babies, hurts. I don't care what they find out about this guy, there will never be a reason or condition that will explain why this happened to those kids.

All too sadly true. :(

I haven't seen this posted here yet...


To President Obama,

I have been deeply shocked and saddened to learn of the dreadful loss of life today in Newtown, Connecticut; particularly the news that so many of the dead are children. Prince Philip joins me in extending our heartfelt sympathy to you and the American people at this difficult time. The thoughts and prayers of everyone in the United Kingdom and throughout the Commonwealth are with the families and friends of those killed and with all those who have been affected by today’s events.

The Queen’s message to President Obama regarding the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut

ETA ~ Don Lemon on CNN's at the Town Square where the makeshift Memorial has been created and he's now talking to a man who is part of a group that brings in Comfort Dogs to disaster areas or areas that are suffering due to a tragic event such as what happened on Friday. They came all the way from Chicago w/about eight or nine dogs w/them, they looked like Golden Retrievers, just to provide comfort to the people who have come the Memorial. Don was saying for the first time since he's been there, the blank and shell shocked looks on peoples faces have been replaced by smiles just on the sight of the dogs being petted and rubbed by little ones and/or other people there.

What a great organization and God Bless them for them not only bringing the dogs, but also doing the training needed for these dogs to be able to do this. They're going to be helping an awful lot of those people in that small town and area.

skatesindreams
12-17-2012, 12:16 AM
Connecticut survivors to attend school in neighboring town: (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/16/us-usa-shooting-connecticut-school-idUSBRE8BF0B520121216)

It will help in the healing process.
Thank heaven that the town offered the facility.