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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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bek
12-16-2012, 01:50 PM
I agree about blaming the parents. Kids make choices too. Not to mention the older son is successful and seems to be following in the dad's footsteps.

judiz
12-16-2012, 02:02 PM
: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/12/15/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother … must read, be patient, very slow at times to load.

rfisher
12-16-2012, 02:06 PM
So much is being done to stop sex trafficking, by NGOs and international institutions and yes, the government of this country. It's not fixed yet but it's a problem that is being addressed. Child abuse is terrible, is a crime everywhere and is handled by police and social service agencies.

There is a consensus that these things are wrong and must be stopped. Maybe not enough resources and the problems will always exist to some extent, but you don't have a powerful multi-million dollar lobby defending child abusers and sex traffickers. Only assault weapons get that kind of political protection. That's the difference.
.

I'll leave it at this, I've worked in medicine a long time and I've radiographed 100s of children who suffered abuse and the numbers increased every year. I've known residents who quit because they couldn't stand working in the ED of a major children's hospital because of the horrific harm done to children by their parents and caregivers. I've never once imaged a child shot in a mass shooting. Apart from gang bangers who shoot each other, I can count on one hand the number of children who have been shot period and I've worked in very large city hospitals. I've never seen the press care.

And, all those NGO's working to stop the sex trade? According to most statistics, it's getting worse not better. It's gone universal rather than national.

I don't own a gun, but I completely support the intent of the 2nd Amendent. I agree with the prinicples of Jefferson and Madison in this regard. I have no issues with tighter control on the sale of firearms. Most gun deaths are not from assault weapons that everyone here, many of which I don't think have a clue what an assault weapon is, want banned. Apart from drug or gang related shootings, most are domestic shootings that occur spur of the moment and are from non-semiautomatic weapons. I disagree with online sales of guns. I do think gun owners should have to attend mandatory gun safety classes. And 99% of gun owners do and are responsible. But, none of those things would have prevented this kid from doing what he did. It would seem he was a tragedy waitng to happen and he did. And what I find interesting is every person who publically states that the 2nd amendent should be overturned and private ownership of firearms make illegal is playing right into the hands of the gun lobbies. The more people spout that type of rhetoric, the stronger they become. Reducing domestic violence due to firearm use should be a priority, albeit, many women are killed by someone's fist rather than a gun so gun laws wouldn't help in those situations. This kid was a walking time bomb who went off. And now he'll join the infamous group who are held up as heros by other kids with "issues".

BlueRidge
12-16-2012, 02:13 PM
The issue I have is with the number of deaths in total by gun crime. Those killed in mass shootings might be a small portion in general, but in terms of overall numbers of deaths, according to these figures (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list) deaths by homicide involving homicide in the US is ahead of everyone except Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela and Mexico.

It doesn't have the highest murder rate - far from it. But more than 9000 people were shot dead last year, while only 30 were skilled that way in Australia, 35 in France, 173 in Canada and 158 in Germany. The murder rate per 100 in the US is 2.97, while most of Europe rests below 1%

For me, it's too high. People are dying every single day in shootings. They might not be as shocking when they're single shootings, especially as it seems Americans are quite used to it and 9000 seems to be a lot lower than previous years. But looking at my countries, 35 and 40 people respectively were shot dead in that same year. I'm not at all used to shootings and I find the figure of 9000+ to be shocking :(

I totally agree about overall gun violence in the U.S. To be clear, I was specifically asking about why people felt that mass killings specifically warranted such a strong reaction. I'm also not saying they don't, I think the reaction is right, I'm just trying to understand how the emotional aspects fit in with rational arguments. Humans are emotional and rational so citing statistics and arguing rationally based on them does not get to the heart of human responses.

I'm just wondering about the response to the killings and how we all feel about them. I'm not arguing about what to do really. That would belong in PI.

Coco
12-16-2012, 02:42 PM
Soooooooooo this shooter had no connection to the school whatsoever? And there was no 2nd shooter arrested in the woods behind the school wearing fatigues?

*Jen*
12-16-2012, 02:47 PM
. To be clear, I was specifically asking about why people felt that mass killings specifically warranted such a strong reaction. I'm also not saying they don't, I think the reaction is right, I'm just trying to understand how the emotional aspects fit in with rational arguments. Humans are emotional and rational so citing statistics and arguing rationally based on them does not get to the heart of human responses.


I know :) Sorry, I went on a tangent. I don't have an answer as to what to do, either.

Buzz
12-16-2012, 02:47 PM
: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/12/15/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother … must read, be patient, very slow at times to load.

WOW! Just wow. Thanks for posting.

missing
12-16-2012, 02:56 PM
I totally agree about overall gun violence in the U.S. To be clear, I was specifically asking about why people felt that mass killings specifically warranted such a strong reaction. I'm also not saying they don't, I think the reaction is right, I'm just trying to understand how the emotional aspects fit in with rational arguments. Humans are emotional and rational so citing statistics and arguing rationally based on them does not get to the heart of human responses.

I'm just wondering about the response to the killings and how we all feel about them. I'm not arguing about what to do really. That would belong in PI.

There are a couple of reasons why mass killings (and this one in particular) have evoked such strong reactions.

First of all, there's the vulnerability. It's very unlikely anyone I know is going to murder me. It's equally unlikely I'll end up killed as a result of gang violence.

But I go to the movies. I go to the mall. And millions of Americans send their children to school.

Secondly, anytime a child (and in America, particulary a white middle class child) is murdered, the response is that much stronger. Look at the fascination with Jon-Benet Ramsey's murder, or Caylee Anthony's.

You combine the two, as happened in Newtown, and the response is going to be that much more intense.

But that doesn't make the response irrational. There's nothing irrational about grieving over the death of children.

skatesindreams
12-16-2012, 03:01 PM
As hard as it must have been, that mother who hospitalized her son did the right thing.
I hope that her son. and others with similar problems. get the treatment they need.

Given the state of attitudes about those with mental health issues in the US, that seems as difficult and unlikely as dealing with gun control.

judiz
12-16-2012, 03:06 PM
Soooooooooo this shooter had no connection to the school whatsoever? And there was no 2nd shooter arrested in the woods behind the school wearing fatigues?

No second shooter, still no idea why the school/children were targeted, mom was said to be teacher and left work to care for shooter but read it wasn't at that school,yet no one has confirmed or denied this.

I read the police are going through the shooter's computer files and maybe the answer is there. Something about the school obviously set him off.

*Jen*
12-16-2012, 03:20 PM
I read the police are going through the shooter's computer files and maybe the answer is there. Something about the school obviously set him off.

Maybe he thought that his mother cared more for her students than for him?

Given how seriously disturbed he was, there may not be any logical answers :(

PrincessLeppard
12-16-2012, 03:30 PM
I'm feeling a lot of concern for teachers. Not just the teachers in that school, but all over.

There's constant talk about how to help your children understand this kind of horrific event, but is anyone thinking about what teachers must be feeling?

I have a friend who is a retired kindergarten teacher, and I keep imagining what she must be feeling.

I've been near tears for two days now, and I've never been a teacher, never been responsible for other people's children.

I hope school districts all over the country have someplace for their teachers to express their horror, their grief.

I teach high school and we have been trained several times about what to do in this situation. I, like Prancer, map out what to do in several different events. I'm not gonna fall apart about it, though, and I don't need my hand held by a counselor, though if some of my colleagues do, that's fine. But I think if you are going to become a teacher, this is something you know is a possibility, though a rare one.

Though I must say, the fact that it happened in an elementary school is shocking. One usually thinks of mass shootings happening in high schools.

BlueRidge
12-16-2012, 03:33 PM
I don't want to think too much about what may have been in the shooter's mind. Its just too chilling.

*Jen*
12-16-2012, 03:36 PM
Though I must say, the fact that it happened in an elementary school is shocking. One usually thinks of mass shootings happening in high schools.

Yep, and usually by students, not the children of parents. You don't expect a relative stranger to come in and shoot the place up.

cruisin
12-16-2012, 03:39 PM
: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2012/12/15/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother … must read, be patient, very slow at times to load.

Wow, that was very hard to read. The pain that mother must feel. But, she did the right thing.