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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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judiz
12-16-2012, 04:05 AM
I'm feeling a lot of concern for teachers. Not just the teachers in that school, but all over.

There's constant talk about how to help your children understand this kind of horrific event, but is anyone thinking about what teachers must be feeling?

I have a friend who is a retired kindergarten teacher, and I keep imagining what she must be feeling.

I've been near tears for two days now, and I've never been a teacher, never been responsible for other people's children.

I hope school districts all over the country have someplace for their teachers to express their horror, their grief.

I teach four year olds and all weekend I've been imagining how I'd react if a gunman opened fire in my school.

Prancer
12-16-2012, 04:16 AM
I'm feeling a lot of concern for teachers. Not just the teachers in that school, but all over.

There's constant talk about how to help your children understand this kind of horrific event, but is anyone thinking about what teachers must be feeling?

I have a friend who is a retired kindergarten teacher, and I keep imagining what she must be feeling.

I've been near tears for two days now, and I've never been a teacher, never been responsible for other people's children.

I hope school districts all over the country have someplace for their teachers to express their horror, their grief.

I don't teach children, but I am the person in charge in a classroom, and I have, for years, thought out a plan of action for every classroom I enter. It's one of the first things I do when I get a new room; how would we get out in case of fire, where do we go if there is a tornado and, for several years now, what would I do if someone opened fire in the building.

Southpaw
12-16-2012, 04:53 AM
So according to this article (http://www.sfgate.com/local/article/What-pushed-shooter-to-kill-4121130.php) the killer was homeschooled because of his issues (I think his brother said he was autistic?), and his mother was planning on picking up and following him to college, wherever he ended up going. And, yeah, she owned a lot of guns.


A divorce, a shattered family dynamic and a disturbed, enigmatic young man with easy access to his mother's extensive gun collection may have sowed the seeds of Friday's massacre in Sandy Hook Elementary School.

Adam Lanza, 20, was remembered Saturday as a quiet, "anti-social" student at Newtown High School, which he left before graduation in 2010, to be home-schooled by his mother, Nancy Lanza, whose murder in the home they shared set off the rampage.

Nancy Lanza, 52, was recalled as an educated, striking woman and a loving mother who was proud of Adam and his older brother. Friends say she was optimistic about Adam's cloudy mental outlook and was even planning on following him to a college when he eventually got himself together and was accepted somewhere.

But her perchant for firearms and her family excursions -- taking her two sons target shooting in recent years -- may have come back to haunt this upscale community of 27,000.

Whitneyskates
12-16-2012, 04:57 AM
Soooo you have a son who is anti-social, had to be home schooled and couldn't go away to college on their own and that leads you to believe that guns and target practice is the way to go? I know you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but what the hell was she thinking?

aftershocks
12-16-2012, 07:52 AM
I recall a similar school massacre in Dunblane, Scotland in 1996 (tennis player Andy Murray was one of the children who survived that tragedy).

Former tennis player, Andrea Jaeger had traveled to Scotland to comfort the youngsters of Dunblane, and she hopes to do the same for the Newtown, CT community:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248714/I-came-lay-flowers-offer-help-Woman-comforted-Dunblane-massacre-survivors-1996-inspired-tennis-champion-Andy-Murray-arrives-Sandy-Hook.html

Vash01
12-16-2012, 07:58 AM
We weren't then, either. Even if that were true about King George, the Constitution was written after the end of the Revolutionary War.

Some of the Founding Fathers believed that all governments become corrupt and that the people should always be able to defend themselves from the government--not from tyrannical kings, but from the same government the Constitution established. Thomas Jefferson, for example, believed that governments should be regularly overthrown.

If you are interested, Google "Tench Cox." He was one of the authors of the Second Amendment and made many of the arguments that persuaded people of the necessity for the people to be able to defend themselves from the government at the time. Many people still find his arguments persuasive today.

Unfortunately that is being misused today, whenever they don't like the results of the elections. Calling Obama tyrannical is laughable. Do you actually recommend that people should take up arms to overthrow THIS government? I don't think you do, but that's how some people are likely to misuse the amendment.

Vash01
12-16-2012, 08:12 AM
When the first name came up, it was heart breaking, and I was afraid to listen to any more names. I did eventually go through the list posted by Sylvia, and it is totally devastating to read it. Tonight I watched a tribute of a father of a 6 year old girl (Emilie) who was killed, a tribute to a 27 year old teacher (Victoria) who had dreamed of being a teacher since she was a little girl, and is no more. There are so many more. This is an unspeakable tragedy. Not that other tragedies were not sad, but when you hear of 6 year olds being gunned down in their classroom, you have to say enough is enough.

If you just look at the numbers, you may call this 'rare'. To me, one victim is too many. I hope these families have the tools to overcome the tremendous grief and shock. As one psychologist said this morning, at a time like this, a psychologist can only do so much, and people have to look to higher powers, depending on their faith, or something else if they are non-religious.

Vash01
12-16-2012, 08:21 AM
So much is being done to stop sex trafficking, by NGOs and international institutions and yes, the government of this country. It's not fixed yet but it's a problem that is being addressed. Child abuse is terrible, is a crime everywhere and is handled by police and social service agencies.

There is a consensus that these things are wrong and must be stopped. Maybe not enough resources and the problems will always exist to some extent, but you don't have a powerful multi-million dollar lobby defending child abusers and sex traffickers. Only assault weapons get that kind of political protection. That's the difference.



But they're not mutually exclusive in terms of root cause. Our suicide rate is high -- and it's much more successful for men attempting it than women. Because women use pills and men use guns. Our homicide rate reflects gun ownership and usage as well. Gun accidents in the home -- the statistic that a gun in the home is more likely to kill or wound a family member than an intruder has been substantiated for twenty years. (And the killer's mom, according to a family member, had those guns in her home for "protection.")

So we don't address the gun problem just to stop the mass shootings, although they are a catalyst for political action, but to address all the needless deaths.

Excellent post, and I particularly like the last sentence.

wickedwitch
12-16-2012, 08:22 AM
Soooo you have a son who is anti-social, had to be home schooled and couldn't go away to college on their own and that leads you to believe that guns and target practice is the way to go? I know you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but what the hell was she thinking?
Probably that 99.99% of people who have problems like that never hurt a fly.

Vash01
12-16-2012, 08:29 AM
In 1688, maybe. In terms of modern warfare, if someone wants to quash you, there are far more powerful weapons out there than guns.



I think your reaction was entirely rational. It's a horrific thing to even think about.

I don't know what the best way forward is. In Australia, it wasn't only rare, it was practically unheard of to have a mass shooting, until the Port Arthur massacre. I was about 12 and I remember it so vividly because I lived a pretty sheltered life in a pretty sheltered place and had possibly never seen a gun, let alone heard of kids being shot dead.

The outcry that followed changed the gun laws, but this isn't going to happen in the US. There's always an outcry, but the support for reform simply isn't strong enough and doesn't change much even after events like this. Maybe it's better, because any reform would be thought through, rather than a knee jerk reaction which led to pretty patchy and irregular control when the laws first came into force in Australia.

The reality is, until there's some form of strict gun control, it's going to happen again, and there just isn't enough support for reform.

The UK's rate of gun crime is 1% of that of the US. The access to mental health care here is just as despicable and needs just as much reform as anywhere else. The major difference is the gun control.

This kind of crime might be rare, but it's also pretty horrific, and much rarer in places without the right to bear arms.

Well said. There are so many examples world wide. It's time the USA learned from others. It will not stop the violence completely, but even a small reduction in it will be a good first step.

tralfamadorian
12-16-2012, 08:51 AM
Initial reports said the mother worked at the school, and/or the killer had an earlier altercation with 4 adults at the school, but no connection has been verified.

There is no evidence that assault rifles were used in this shooting, but 9mm handguns (an assault rifle was found at the scene, but no proof it was used).
The way the story and the "facts" keep changing is just incredible.
First we had a mother - supposedly a teacher at the school - killed at the school, and the father and the brother killed at their houses. Then it turns out the father and the brother are alive, and the mother was killed at home. It also comes out that noone in the school ever heard of her and she wasn't a teacher there at all.
Then for the weapons, yesterday the reports said only handguns were found in the school, and a rifle was found in the trunk of the car. Today the coroner announces that all the wounds were from a rifle.
And these are just the more obvious contradictions. What is true and what is not? Is it safe to believe ANYTHING the media says anymore?

With that in mind, I'm just going to treat every new report with a huge grain of salt and wait for further confirmation before treating anything as a "fact". (Such as that the mother was allegedly an avid gun collector who took her sons for regular shooting practice, since the latest I've read is that (contrary to what was widely reported yesterday) the police hasn't even confirmed yet that all the guns were registered to the mother. Who knows, maybe tomorrow this part of the story will change too?)

Unfortunately it seems the only real fact is that way too many innocent children were killed in a horrific way :(

*Jen*
12-16-2012, 09:23 AM
Speaking of statistics, I found these

Number of deaths in the U.S. per year: approximately 2,400,000.
Number of deaths from accidents in the U.S. per year: 118,021 (exact figure is for 2009)
Number of deaths from suicide in the U.S. per year: 36,909 (exact figure is for 2009).
Number of deaths from homicide using a gun in the U.S. in 2007: 12,632

Number killed in mass shootings is ? per year, per decade

ETA: 2012 number killed and injured in Mass shootings (from Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2)): 135

number killed and injured in mass shootings in the U.S. in the past 10 years (Mother Jones): 445

The point being that the number killed in the mass shootings is very small relative to the number of deaths and relative to many other causes of death.



The issue I have is with the number of deaths in total by gun crime. Those killed in mass shootings might be a small portion in general, but in terms of overall numbers of deaths, according to these figures (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list) deaths by homicide involving homicide in the US is ahead of everyone except Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela and Mexico.

It doesn't have the highest murder rate - far from it. But more than 9000 people were shot dead last year, while only 30 were skilled that way in Australia, 35 in France, 173 in Canada and 158 in Germany. The murder rate per 100 in the US is 2.97, while most of Europe rests below 1%

For me, it's too high. People are dying every single day in shootings. They might not be as shocking when they're single shootings, especially as it seems Americans are quite used to it and 9000 seems to be a lot lower than previous years. But looking at my countries, 35 and 40 people respectively were shot dead in that same year. I'm not at all used to shootings and I find the figure of 9000+ to be shocking :(

tarotx
12-16-2012, 09:58 AM
I believe that these evil people (and for whatever reason they are evil at the time of planning and acting out these crimes) want a moment of power and to die Famous. Guns and bombs and airplanes give them the power and the media enshrines these assholes in "glory". It's a nightmare. It's not like the press can't report about these crimes. I just wish the murderers were never named. I wish that could happen. These assholes have to do bigger and crazier things to get people really emotional and passionate to remember their names and crimes. Those poor babies and their teachers and guardian angels should be remembered but that evil that took their lives should never be named. There is no way that can happen because we also need to know why and we can't know why unless we know who.

paskatefan
12-16-2012, 11:39 AM
The Westboro Baptist Church is planning to picket some of the funerals... :mad: There's a counter-demonstration being organized, Facebook group here....

https://www.facebook.com/groups/208248072645037/members/


This is terrible to say but why doesn't anything like this happen to people like the Westboro Baptist Church.

These Westboro folks are despicable!

Hannahclear
12-16-2012, 12:49 PM
Soooo you have a son who is anti-social, had to be home schooled and couldn't go away to college on their own and that leads you to believe that guns and target practice is the way to go? I know you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but what the hell was she thinking?

Can the woman be buried at least before we decide that it's all her fault? After all, she was murdered by her own child, who then went on to kill 20 children and 6 adults. It's almost enough to hope there isn't an afterlife, because I'm not sure she'd want to know.

There's a nasty trend in our society to blame mommy for whatever her children do. I've heard it several times and I think it's pernicious.

There's only one person at fault here and that's the shooter. He pulled the trigger, all 100 + times.