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JAF
12-15-2012, 11:45 PM
NEWTOWN, Conn. -- Authorities have released the names of the 26 people gunned down in a rampage at a Connecticut elementary school.

All six adults killed at the school were women. Of the 20 children who were shot to death, eight were boys and 12 were girls. All the children were ages 6 or 7.

Charlotte Bacon, 6
Daniel Barden, 7
Rachel Davino, 29
Olivia Engel, 6
Josephine Gay, 7
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
Dylan Hockley, 6
Dawn Hocksprung, 47 [School Principal]
Madeline Hsu, 6
Catherine Hubbard, 6
Chase Kowalski, 7
Jesse Lewis, 6
James Mattioli, 6
Grace McDonnell, 7
Anne Marie Murphy, 52 [Special Education Teacher]
Emilie Parker, 6
Jack Pinto, 6
Noah Pozner, 6
Caroline Previdi, 6
Jessica Rekos, 6
Avielle Richman, 6
Lauren Rousseau, 30 [Substitute Teacher]
Mary Sherlach, 56 [School Psychologist]
Victoria Soto, 27 [First Grade Teacher]
Benjamin Wheeler, 6
Allison Wyatt, 6

ETA article about Anne Marie Murphy: http://newyork.newsday.com/news/nation/connecticut-shooting-sandy-hook-victim-anne-marie-murphy-mourned-by-katonah-parents-1.4336910
How can anyone justify not banning assault rifles after the release of this list? Those precious innocent children - how can you read their names without crying. As for the adults on the list - Heroes All

What number of deaths 150 or 250, or will it take the slaughter of toddlers and infants for us to take action?

Prancer
12-16-2012, 12:11 AM
What I was thinking about when I said that about maybe it not being rational to be rational was the fact that these kinds of killings make up a very minute number of deaths, even of deaths from gun violence so rationally, we really should not be so concerned at all that they happen, when the numbers of deaths from any number of other factors are vastly more significant. And considering how hard it is to prevent these kinds of shootings--likely in part because they are so rare--if we are rational we will address issues which result in many more deaths and injuries.

Oh. Well, you quoted me in your reply, so I thought you were addressing what I said.

BlueRidge
12-16-2012, 12:18 AM
Oh. Well, you quoted me in your reply, so I thought you were addressing what I said.

I was addressing the specific thing you said that I quoted, which was the question whether these massacres are increasing in frequency. I was just thinking about the frequency issue and thinking it might be most rational not to be overly concerned about these kinds of shootings because they are infrequent, even if they are increasing, which I'm not sure they are. But then of course we get very upset about them and feel that it is right to be upset and want them to be stopped, so I wondered if that kind of rational thinking was really rational, since human reactions are often not rational but they are significant.

Prancer
12-16-2012, 12:41 AM
I was addressing the specific thing you said that I quoted, which was the question whether these massacres are increasing in frequency. I was just thinking about the frequency issue and thinking it might be most rational not to be overly concerned about these kinds of shootings because they are infrequent, even if they are increasing, which I'm not sure they are. But then of course we get very upset about them and feel that it is right to be upset and want them to be stopped, so I wondered if that kind of rational thinking was really rational, since human reactions are often not rational but they are significant.

I think most people are emotional, if not irrational, in their initial responses to tragedies, then they rationalize and compartmentalize. Some people just get there faster than others, depending partly on their makeup and partly on how events concur or do not with their worldview.

rfisher
12-16-2012, 12:42 AM
Fading was definitely the wrong word, it didn't go so much as be replaced. :mad: :mad: :mad:

6 and 7 year olds who should never *ever* have to fear this, let alone actually have their lives cut short. :(

You did a peds residency. How many 6 and 7 year olds did you see that were beat to death by their parents? Way more than are killed by a random stranger. More each day than died yesterday. Where is your outrage here? How about the 1000s of children this age or younger sexually abused by adults, many of which are sold into a very lucretative sex trade that nobody wants to talk about? This was a tragedy, without a doubt, but if you want to discuss what children shouldn't have to suffer, many, many more are suffering than these 18 children. And nothing is done to stop it.

overedge
12-16-2012, 12:53 AM
The Westboro Baptist Church is planning to picket some of the funerals... :mad: There's a counter-demonstration being organized, Facebook group here....

https://www.facebook.com/groups/208248072645037/members/

overedge
12-16-2012, 12:54 AM
What if we were to ever get a crazy dictator/and or what if we were ever to be invaded and that invasion ever became successful. Having an armed populace provides another line of defense against all of this.

That's a lot of "ifs". And you might notice that the wording in the Constitution talks about an armed militia, which is a little different from an armed populace.

Whitneyskates
12-16-2012, 12:55 AM
This is terrible to say but why doesn't anything like this happen to people like the Westboro Baptist Church.

eliza61
12-16-2012, 01:02 AM
As an Australian I can't get my head around the whole gun ownership thing in America. According to THIS (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/chart-the-u-s-has-far-more-gun-related-killings-than-any-other-developed-country/) article data compiled by the UN found:


The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country.

Kasey
12-16-2012, 01:03 AM
I was accused of being anti-American because I said that I am schocked and frightened that we live in one of the only - if not the only - country in the world that views wide spread gun ownership as a good thing. I informed this person that I am not anti-American, I am anti-stupid, but unfortunately that happens to be a lot of Americans these days.

So anyone who disagrees with you, by your statement, is stupid. Regardless of what intelligence they may actually possess, and what rationales they may have for believing as they do about things. Yes, so much for not being irrational in response to tragedy...


How can anyone justify not banning assault rifles after the release of this list? Those precious innocent children - how can you read their names without crying. As for the adults on the list - Heroes All


There is no evidence that assault rifles were used in this shooting, but 9mm handguns (an assault rifle was found at the scene, but no proof it was used). So, banning assault rifles (which I would be in favor of, since no one outside of police and military have reason in my mind to own them) would not have stopped this crime. And seriously, banning guns in general is not going stop batshit crazy people from doing insane things. When people decide they've had enough and are willing to do mandatory psych evals on everyone school age and up, and take away the civil liberties of anyone who shows tendencies towards psychosis and violence, lock them up before they even act out, then maybe we'll stop such crimes from happening. Oh wait, that's right; that's irrational and impossible.

Prancer
12-16-2012, 01:06 AM
The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country.

There are reasons that there are web sites designed to help journalists accurately report on statistics :shuffle:

Sylvia
12-16-2012, 01:06 AM
Connecticut school victims were shot multiple times, medical examiner says: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html

All of the victims died from gunshot wounds and all were struck more than once, according to H. Wayne Carver II, chief medical examiner for the state of Connecticut. Their deaths have been classified as homicides.

"I've been at this for a third of a century. My sensibilities may not be the average man, but this probably is the worst I have seen or the worst that I know of any of my colleagues having seen," Carver told reporters.

He performed seven of the autopsies himself. Carver said the wounds he knew about were caused by a "long weapon." Asked by a reporter whether a rife was the primary weapon, he responded, 'Yes."
...

"The detectives will certainly analyze everything and put a complete picture together of the evidence that they did obtain, and we're hopeful -- we're hopeful -- that it will paint a complete picture as to how and why this entire unfortunate incidence occurred," said Lt. J. Paul Vance, a spokesman for the Connecticut State Police.

Vance said police are already talking to the one wounded adult at the school, a woman who has not been named.

"She has been treated and she'll be instrumental in this investigation, as I'm sure you can understand," he said.

Lanza was found dead next to three guns, a semi-automatic .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle and two pistols made by Glock and Sig Sauer, a law enforcement source told CNN. All belonged to his mother.

Whitneyskates
12-16-2012, 01:08 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/picture-gallery/news/2012/12/15/connecticut-school-shooting-victims/1771299/?csp=fbfanpage

There are some pictures of the victims. I made it through two before I had to stop. Those kids, I just can't.



So anyone who disagrees with you, by your statement
Sorry, but when someone walks into a school and murders 20 children with guns and I see people saying that the solution to this is more guns, then yes, I call that stupid.

milanessa
12-16-2012, 01:11 AM
The Westboro Baptist Church is planning to picket some of the funerals...

I don't think they've shown up anywhere they've announced they'll be in a long time have they?

BlueRidge
12-16-2012, 01:29 AM
Speaking of statistics, I found these

Number of deaths in the U.S. per year: approximately 2,400,000.
Number of deaths from accidents in the U.S. per year: 118,021 (exact figure is for 2009)
Number of deaths from suicide in the U.S. per year: 36,909 (exact figure is for 2009).
Number of deaths from homicide using a gun in the U.S. in 2007: 12,632

Number killed in mass shootings is ? per year, per decade

ETA: 2012 number killed and injured in Mass shootings (from Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map?page=2)): 135

number killed and injured in mass shootings in the U.S. in the past 10 years (Mother Jones): 445

The point being that the number killed in the mass shootings is very small relative to the number of deaths and relative to many other causes of death.

So the question again is, is the fact that a shooting such as the one that occurred in Newtown so horrific that we must prevent future events like this, even though they are extremely rare and nearly insignificant as a cause of death?