PDA

View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38

Whitneyskates
12-15-2012, 09:38 PM
:( Seeing the names, and the ages of those babies, hurts. I don't care what they find out about this guy, there will never be a reason or condition that will explain why this happened to those kids.

Eden
12-15-2012, 09:43 PM
Newtown school massacre reaches the headlines all over the world.
One of the 6 year olds victims, Noah Pozner, had a twin sister who survived because she was in a different class.
His mom told to the Israeli ynet.news that when she didn't see him coming out of a school she felt that he didn't survive.
Today Newtown's Jewish community said a special prayer for Noah (who belonged to the Jewish community) and all of the victims of this terrible shooting.
This is such a tragedy :(
RIP!
!יהי זכרם ברוך

Prancer
12-15-2012, 09:48 PM
But let's be real here, we're not living in the times of the revolution when a tyrannical King was doing everything in his power to prevent us from becoming an independant nation.

We weren't then, either. Even if that were true about King George, the Constitution was written after the end of the Revolutionary War.

Some of the Founding Fathers believed that all governments become corrupt and that the people should always be able to defend themselves from the government--not from tyrannical kings, but from the same government the Constitution established. Thomas Jefferson, for example, believed that governments should be regularly overthrown.

If you are interested, Google "Tench Cox." He was one of the authors of the Second Amendment and made many of the arguments that persuaded people of the necessity for the people to be able to defend themselves from the government at the time. Many people still find his arguments persuasive today.

lulu
12-15-2012, 09:52 PM
Newtown school massacre reaches the headlines all over the world.
One of the 6 year olds victims, Noah Pozner, had a twin sister who survived because she was in a different class.
His mom told to the Israeli ynet.news that when she didn't see him coming out of a school she felt that he didn't survive.
Today Newtown's Jewish community said a special prayer for Noah (who belonged to the Jewish community) and all of the victims of this terrible shooting.
This is such a tragedy :(
RIP!
!יהי זכרם ברוך

:( :fragile: I can't imagine how difficult this must be for his twin sister especially.

LilJen
12-15-2012, 09:53 PM
frickin' 6 and 7 year olds. What a travesty. :wuzrobbed

Lara
12-15-2012, 10:02 PM
Fading was definitely the wrong word, it didn't go so much as be replaced. :mad: :mad: :mad:

6 and 7 year olds who should never *ever* have to fear this, let alone actually have their lives cut short. :(

centerstage01
12-15-2012, 10:31 PM
Those poor babies. I can't stop crying for those little souls who just went to school expecting it to be like every other day. And those adults who saved the lives of so many more only to lose their own lives. May God hold and comfort the families and friends who are grieving.

What are we going to have to do as a country to get it though people's heads that no, it's not some gross injustice if you don't get to own a semi-automatic assault rifle, and no, you being armed to the teeth every time you go outside won't change anything except maybe you taking someone else's life because you got trigger happy and your aim sucks.

IceAlisa
12-15-2012, 10:32 PM
Heart rending.

overedge
12-15-2012, 10:34 PM
I must say that I do see the wisdom of this.. It keeps the state free.

Free from what?

Sofia Alexandra
12-15-2012, 10:54 PM
What are we going to have to do as a country to get it though people's heads that no, it's not some gross injustice if you don't get to own a semi-automatic assault rifle, and no, you being armed to the teeth every time you go outside won't change anything except maybe you taking someone else's life because you got trigger happy and your aim sucks.The way I see it, freedom is to be able to go to school, go to a mall, go to the cinema, or anywhere else you might want to go to, and not have to spend a second worrying that any one of all the people around you might be carrying a gun.

bek
12-15-2012, 10:57 PM
Free from what?

What if we were to ever get a crazy dictator/and or what if we were ever to be invaded and that invasion ever became successful. Having an armed populace provides another line of defense against all of this.

BlueRidge
12-15-2012, 10:58 PM
I think it is always rational to ask rational questions if you are seeking rational answers. Of what purpose is it to seek answers by looking in the wrong places and jumping to the wrong conclusions?

The question I was raising is not whether one is likely to die in a gun massacre, but rather if gun masscres are actually increasing--because people do indeed have the idea that they are. I read an article yesterday with the headline "GUN MASSACRES ON THE RISE," a headline that was then completely disproven by the article itself. That is, to me, irrational--and also not useful.

If your question is "Can this kind of tragedy be prevented in the future?" then I think it requires asking rational questions about the causes. Many of the theories proposed so far in this thread have been proposed many times. Some of them have been studied and found to be irrelevant at worst or only very weakly linked at best. Does that kind of thinking help us find actual solutions? Or are we just going to blunder around trying things whether they work or not?

I know that some people believe that doing something is always better than doing nothing; I'm not one of them.



The NRA is not, by itself, powerful. It is the number of citizens of this country who oppose gun control and are not moved to change their minds by these events who are powerful. Opinion polls have shown repeatedly that public opinion changes little or not at all after one of these shootings. In that regard, the US is very different from many other countries, where gun massacres have been followed by massive public outcry for change. That is not the case in the US.

One of the strongest gun advocates I know personally has a kindergartner. Her reaction to all this has been to cry and cry and rant that more people need to carry guns. It's the substantial numbers of people like that who make the NRA powerful.

What I was thinking about when I said that about maybe it not being rational to be rational was the fact that these kinds of killings make up a very minute number of deaths, even of deaths from gun violence so rationally, we really should not be so concerned at all that they happen, when the numbers of deaths from any number of other factors are vastly more significant. And considering how hard it is to prevent these kinds of shootings--likely in part because they are so rare--if we are rational we will address issues which result in many more deaths and injuries.

But is that really rational? All of us are feeling grief today at these little children whose lives have been cut so short. I was driving to Virginia today and came around a curve to see the flags flying at half staff in front of the Kennedy Center. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm not sure whether that was a rational reaction or not.

We do not want to see these kinds of massacres even if they are very rare and thus very hard to prevent. I'm not sure what the rational way forward is.

duane
12-15-2012, 11:06 PM
Initial reports said the mother worked at the school, and/or the killer had an earlier altercation with 4 adults at the school, but no connection has been verified. Unfortunately, we may now have to face the grim fact that targeting children is no longer a taboo for these mass shooters. There was the amish killings in Pennsylvania where young schoolgirls were the target, and it seems killing as many children as possible was the goal of Adam Lanza. The scary thing is that mass killers are often looking to go down in infamy by 'outdoing' the others.

milanessa
12-15-2012, 11:14 PM
What if we were to ever get a crazy dictator/and or what if we were ever to be invaded and that invasion ever became successful. Having an armed populace provides another line of defense against all of this.

My first instinct was to laugh at you loudly and long but this is not the thread to do this in. :( My heart goes out to all those affected.

*Jen*
12-15-2012, 11:41 PM
What if we were to ever get a crazy dictator/and or what if we were ever to be invaded and that invasion ever became successful. Having an armed populace provides another line of defense against all of this.

In 1688, maybe. In terms of modern warfare, if someone wants to quash you, there are far more powerful weapons out there than guns.




We do not want to see these kinds of massacres even if they are very rare and thus very hard to prevent. I'm not sure what the rational way forward is.

I think your reaction was entirely rational. It's a horrific thing to even think about.

I don't know what the best way forward is. In Australia, it wasn't only rare, it was practically unheard of to have a mass shooting, until the Port Arthur massacre. I was about 12 and I remember it so vividly because I lived a pretty sheltered life in a pretty sheltered place and had possibly never seen a gun, let alone heard of kids being shot dead.

The outcry that followed changed the gun laws, but this isn't going to happen in the US. There's always an outcry, but the support for reform simply isn't strong enough and doesn't change much even after events like this. Maybe it's better, because any reform would be thought through, rather than a knee jerk reaction which led to pretty patchy and irregular control when the laws first came into force in Australia.

The reality is, until there's some form of strict gun control, it's going to happen again, and there just isn't enough support for reform.

The UK's rate of gun crime is 1% of that of the US. The access to mental health care here is just as despicable and needs just as much reform as anywhere else. The major difference is the gun control.

This kind of crime might be rare, but it's also pretty horrific, and much rarer in places without the right to bear arms.