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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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Sylvia
12-15-2012, 06:19 PM
"Teachers sacrificed themselves to save their pupils": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9746935/Teachers-sacrificed-themselves-to-save-their-pupils.html

Authorities have identified principal Dawn Hochsprung, 47, school psychologist Mary Sherlach, 56, and 27-year-old Victoria Soto, a young first grade teacher, as three of the eight adults found dead at the Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday.

Bailey_
12-15-2012, 06:21 PM
Without a doubt, IMHO we as a society have become desensitized to violence. In an attempt to protect personal rights, it seems people have lost common sense and this has put everyone at risk of such violence. The answer is not to have more guns - the misguided notion that guns in school would make the children safer because the staff could have killed the shooter is insane. What are we thinking? For those who say that the Constitution gives people the right to bear arms -- this document was written in 1776 when people used rifles and killed for their diner. Collecting five semi-automatic and assault weapons capable of causing this type massacre is not the same thing!! When are people going to rise up and decide that this is not acceptable!!

In the past week, people have been killed while Christmas shopping at a mall, someone was assassinated on a New York street, and young children were killed at school. What needs to happen for this insanity to end? As someone who lives in another country and sees the gun culture and gun violence in the US for what it is, I can't understand why citizens/politicians can be so passive and allow this to happen, time and time again. It is my great hope that Obama, in his second term with no need to be re-elected, will do what is right and push for legislation that will protect US citizens from these kinds of guns and this kind of violence. As President, as a citizen, and as a father I don't understand how he could not make this a priority for his second term.

My sincere sympathy goes out to all those affected by this tragedy -- those who lost their lives and those who will carry the memory of this day forever in their hearts and minds. God Bless you all.

Vash01
12-15-2012, 06:25 PM
I feel bad for Ryan Lanza who lost his mother and got his name tarnished in the media in all of this..

I too was thinking of Ryan Lanza last night, and again this morning. He has just lost his mother and his younger brother. He too is a victim in a way but he is not likely to get a lot of sympathy because of what his brother did. The law enforcement questioned him, as they should. It's not known yet if he had any hand in the killings, but at first glance it does not sound like he did. Even if one does not sympathize with him for losing his younger brother, one has to feel for anyone that had to experience the murder of his mother. I include him in my condolences. As you correctly said, his name has been tarnished and it will be tough to clear, even if he is totally innocent in this.

bek
12-15-2012, 06:29 PM
I too was thinking of Ryan Lanza last night, and again this morning. He has just lost his mother and his younger brother. He too is a victim in a way but he is not likely to get a lot of sympathy because of what his brother did. The law enforcement questioned him, as they should. It's not known yet if he had any hand in the killings, but at first glance it does not sound like he did. Even if one does not sympathize with him for losing his younger brother, one has to feel for anyone that had to experience the murder of his mother. I include him in my condolences. As you correctly said, his name has been tarnished and it will be tough to clear, even if he is totally innocent in this.

I sympathize with him. He did lose his mother. Its not his fault his brother is what his brother is? Not to mention he's probably going to be pretty easy to clear seeing as he was in New York City at his job when the shootings occurred. That's about as airtight of an alibi as you can get. The guy probably has a lawsuit. Especially with media outlets still pointing his picture. And I hope he does sue. Even though him making money of this is sigh.

The media should not be so quick to identify people in things like this until all of their ducks are in a row.

judiz
12-15-2012, 06:34 PM
I too was thinking of Ryan Lanza last night, and again this morning. He has just lost his mother and his younger brother. He too is a victim in a way but he is not likely to get a lot of sympathy because of what his brother did. The law enforcement questioned him, as they should. It's not known yet if he had any hand in the killings, but at first glance it does not sound like he did. Even if one does not sympathize with him for losing his younger brother, one has to feel for anyone that had to experience the murder of his mother. I include him in my condolences. As you correctly said, his name has been tarnished and it will be tough to clear, even if he is totally innocent in this.

True, people are posting threats on his facebook page because he was originally named as the killer, his photo was in the paper and on the news showing him being led from his apartment in handcuffs - was that really necessary? Now it has been reported he had not spoken to his brother in two years, no idea if he was in contact with his mother or if he had cut off all communications with his family but it appears he was leading a regular life in New York/New Jersey and now, like the families in Connecticut, his life is forever changed.

numbers123
12-15-2012, 06:34 PM
In part the media should accept blame for the tarnishing of his name - in the efforts/over zealous need to be the first to report something, they run with a "clue" rather than wait for the investigation to proceed as it should.

Regardless of the family dynamics, he lost his mother, his brother, his name, and by association will be the man who had the crazed gunman as a brother. I imagine that he did have some family memories of that brother and growing up that were good. To know that his brother changed so much from some of the innocent times has to be painful and deepens the loss. He will always wonder how he could have loved, shared experiences with a person who in the eyes of the world is evil.

We mourn for the innocent children and adults who happened to be in the line of fire, we mourn for their families and community, but we often forget that there are people who by association with the killer who need our support, grieving for and to remove any condemnation by name association.

rfisher
12-15-2012, 06:43 PM
Clearly, some of you actually need to read the 2nd Amendent and the historical analysis of it's content. It had nothing to do with shooting one's dinner. The intent behind the Amendent is no different now than in the 1790s nor will it be in the 2490s.

lulu
12-15-2012, 06:46 PM
In part the media should accept blame for the tarnishing of his name - in the efforts/over zealous need to be the first to report something, they run with a "clue" rather than wait for the investigation to proceed as it should.

Regardless of the family dynamics, he lost his mother, his brother, his name, and by association will be the man who had the crazed gunman as a brother. I imagine that he did have some family memories of that brother and growing up that were good. To know that his brother changed so much from some of the innocent times has to be painful and deepens the loss. He will always wonder how he could have loved, shared experiences with a person who in the eyes of the world is evil.

We mourn for the innocent children and adults who happened to be in the line of fire, we mourn for their families and community, but we often forget that there are people who by association with the killer who need our support, grieving for and to remove any condemnation by name association.

Well said. I too thought of Ryan Lanza -my heart goes out to him and to all of the families affected by this horrible massacre.

UGG
12-15-2012, 06:50 PM
People don't believe that these things really do effect/desensitize our children. And, we don't want to censor and take away the rights of those who create violent games and films. I believe that there is outrage, but no one wants to risk doing anything about it.

And that is a problem IMO. We don't want to take away the rights of the "creative minds" behind the stories, games etc...but we can take away the right for a child to be safe?

I am not saying the people who create this stuff are bad people-but unfortunately there are crazies out there who cannot differentiate between reality and fantasy. This guy was dressed in war gear to go kill a bunch of kindergartners. No one will ever convince me that media etc...does not play a roll when these monsters are getting ready to move forward with their plot. he probably had some soundtrack playing in his head.

There is not just one solution-there are many. We need a better understanding of mental illness, we need better gun laws...why the hell did his mother own a weapon that can shoot 100 rounds of gun fire? That should not be legal. We need to make our children value human life more. There are so many things society needs to work.

lulu
12-15-2012, 07:05 PM
"Teachers sacrificed themselves to save their pupils": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9746935/Teachers-sacrificed-themselves-to-save-their-pupils.html


A profile on another confirmed victim, Lauren Rousseau (http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Lauren-Rousseau-The-best-year-of-her-life-4120850.php) who was a permanent substitute teacher at the school.

*Jen*
12-15-2012, 07:06 PM
Without a doubt, IMHO we as a society have become desensitized to violence.

Do you really think so? People used to go to the Tower of London with their kids to watch the beheadings. Society has changed, but I don't think we're any more or less sensitised than before - it's just a different type of violence and a different response to it.

My roommate grew up playing violent video games and still plays them. He wouldn't hurt a fly and is as shocked by violence as everyone else. Video games may be a factor in those who have a pre-disposition to mental health issues, but are probably not an overwhelming issue in the general population.

Whitneyskates
12-15-2012, 07:07 PM
I think another problem is that the lines of what is right and wrong have been blurred. How can we teach kids that violence is wrong when a singer can beat the hell out of his girlfriend, suffer no punishment, then go on to be rewarded for his "talent". How can we teach kids that you must always abide by the law when young actresses think they are above it, and basically have that thought confirmed when they suffer no consequences. "Drugs are bad kids, unless you're an actor who abandons his family for a life of cocaine and hookers, then you'll be rewarded with commercials and a brand spanking new television show"

Aceon6
12-15-2012, 07:10 PM
Forget gun reform. This won't stop until relatives can have some rights for mentally disturbed children over 18. At 17 364/365, parents can force treatment. One day later, the kid can refuse. The relatives can't get help until the kid does something. Well, guess what? All it takes in one something.

Bailey_
12-15-2012, 07:11 PM
Clearly, some of you actually need to read the 2nd Amendent and the historical analysis of it's content. It had nothing to do with shooting one's dinner. The intent behind the Amendent is no different now than in the 1790s nor will it be in the 2490s.

I have read the 2nd Amendment and you are right, it is not correct to say that it has anything to do with shooting for one's dinner. I was simply trying to state that the technology was very different when the Constitution was drafted. I'm just saying that the right to bear arms, unconnected to military service, for traditionally lawful purpose, does not IMHO include the right to own these kinds of weapons. These weapons, IMHO, are not designed to be used for lawful purposes. I personally, do not see the need for anyone not in military service to own a weapon capable of mass destruction and death. It is my hope that this unthinkable tragedy, and all the others, will prompt discussion and change in gun laws. Probably very unlikely to happen, as these kinds of tragedies will likely continue to happen even if the gun laws change because where there is a will, there is a way. But, something really needs to be done to protect innocent citizens.

Lara
12-15-2012, 07:11 PM
Clearly, some of you actually need to read the 2nd Amendent and the historical analysis of it's content. It had nothing to do with shooting one's dinner. The intent behind the Amendent is no different now than in the 1790s nor will it be in the 2490s.

So the same assault weapons of today existed in 1790?

All I can say is that now the initial horror is fading, I'm just deeply angry that this keeps being allowed to happen. And yes, improved + free mental services is absolutely equally important. But there's no effing reason average citizens NEED guns. They may *want* them to collect or to hunt or yes, because they believe it makes them more secure - but that's not the same thing. And if this event isn't enough to finally enact change, at the beginning of a second Democratic presidency term...then I may never have been so disappointed in the United States.