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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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*Jen*
12-15-2012, 09:27 AM
What a horrible tragedy :( There are no words.

I'll just say I agree with PR Lady entirely. Unless or until something is done about gun control, this will happen again. It's just a matter of time.

And of course something can be done about it, it would just be politically unpopular. If people want something changed enough, they'll change it. It just seems that at the moment, throughout Western societies, we've lost our voice and forgotten how to take to the streets and fight with words for what we want. Instead, it seems we bicker on twitter and news site comments and wonder why nothing changes :wall:

Vash01
12-15-2012, 10:16 AM
I saw a teacher being interviewed on CNN. She took the children into a corner or another room (I don't remember which), and she kept reading them stories to keep them calm. None of them was harmed, thankfully, but the actions of many teachers in tough times made me respect them a lot. Teachers in general deserve a lot more respect than they get in our money-minded culture.

bek
12-15-2012, 10:26 AM
I feel bad for Ryan Lanza who lost his mother and got his name tarnished in the media in all of this..

Maofan7
12-15-2012, 10:27 AM
How many innocents have to lose their lives before there is a ban on carrying guns/assault weapons at public places? The only people that should be allowed to carry guns are -law enforcement, hunters, and soldiers. There is absolutely no need for ordinary people to carry guns in a civilized society. The NRA needs to be accountable for influencing politicians, and making it impossible to place a ban on guns. No other civilized country has this problem. It's time for congress to wake up and make the right decisions before more senseless killings. Sadly, the NRA is using events like this to make people buy more guns for self defense. When no one owns guns, you don't need to carry guns to defend yourself.

Completely agree 100%. This time the Government has to act. This madness has got to stop.

paskatefan
12-15-2012, 10:35 AM
Unspeakable tragedy. What is wrong with this world? I am heartsick.

floskate
12-15-2012, 11:38 AM
Completely agree 100%. This time the Government has to act. This madness has got to stop.

This. I'm watching the news and wondering just how bad it has to get before the US 'powers that be' look themselves in the mirror and start to realise that the answers to these crimes do not rest with God being removed from schools, or because teachers aren't issued with guns! And these 'comments' are coming from people in positions of power? :scream: Was yesterday not bad enough to think that radical reform is needed? What actually has to happen for these people to realise that the US gun control laws have to change? Everyone I have spoken to is heartbroken for those poor kids, the teachers and their families and friends, but FURIOUS that these kind of events are happening again and again while no one does anything to prevent it. While obviously mental health is an issue that clearly also needs dealing with, gun restrictions will go a long way to reducing this kind of horrific crime. All that we, the rest of the world, can do is look on with profound sympathy, but shake our heads at the utter stupidity and waste as time and again, innocent people die yet mistakes are not being learned from. Those poor kids must NOT die in vain. Not this time. :(

ilovepaydays
12-15-2012, 01:11 PM
Huckabee Says Connecticut School Massacre Occurred Because We ‘Removed God From Our Schools’ (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/14/1339971/huckabee-says-connecticut-school-massacre-occurred-because-we-removed-god-from-our-schools/?mobile=nc)

Huckabee makes me cringe when I tell people that I am from Arkansas. Besides, wasn't he governor when this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westside_Middle_School_massacre) happened?

BlueRidge
12-15-2012, 01:33 PM
Are they increasing in frequency?

I've been mulling this over needless to say and what keeps coming back to me is the fact that while these massacres seem to have become more prominent, violence is down in the U.S. It is remarkable to hear that in D.C. we are on a track to have just under 100 murders this year--horrible, but at the height of gun violence we had 550 a year.

It is maybe not rational to ask rational questions such as what is the likelihood of being killed in a gun massacre vs. many other ways of dying? These events are horrific even if they actually are very, very unlikely and kill only a small number of people.

As regulars at FSU well know, I am not pro-gun. I'm seeing so many people saying Now is the time to change our laws. But our laws can only be changed if our collective attitudes change. We've seen this with gay rights. Politicians can't force change, it has to come first at the social, cultural level.

And sadly to me, we are nowhere near there.

Angelskates
12-15-2012, 01:45 PM
BR, I agree with you. The same thing is said after every mass shooting, yet nothing happens. Maybe it will be different because this shooting involved so many young children, but sadly, I doubt it. :(

*Jen*
12-15-2012, 01:52 PM
As regulars at FSU well know, I am not pro-gun. I'm seeing so many people saying Now is the time to change our laws. But our laws can only be changed if our collective attitudes change. We've seen this with gay rights. Politicians can't force change, it has to come first at the social, cultural level.

And sadly to me, we are nowhere near there.

I agree. Haven't we been saying the same thing after every shooting? Didn't we say it after what happened in Colorado just a few of months ago? I wonder what needs to happen before these attitudes start changing. These aren't the first children to die, and they may not be the last. This isn't going to stop. Change has to be fostered from the ground up, not imposed.

I do think it's slightly ironic though, that one of my gun totin' 'right to bear arms' friends would resist any change to the law forced on them by government, but thinks it's perfectly okay for governments to impose regime change on other countries. Sigh. We really aren't a rational race, are we?

cruisin
12-15-2012, 02:28 PM
Mass killers often have a grudge against a single person; they just kill a lot of other people at the same time.

And there are many reasons why someone with mental problems might have a grudge against the students of his teacher-mother, I would think.

I suppose what is extra disturbing in this case is the fact that the children were not caught in the crossfire. He settled his rage with his mother at home, then deliberately went out and killed little children. It is now being reported that his mother was not a teacher at Sandy Hook school. She had some connection to the school, possibly as a teacher's aid, but it was most likely volunteer. The superintendent of the school says she was not employed by the school.


^ There are all kinds of people with different kinds of emotional problems, anxieties, depression, etc., that do not necessarily lead them to commit violent acts.

Yes, but my point is that society judges people who get mental health treatment. They don't understand it, so they judge. That can make it harder for a person who needs help to be willing to get help. Fear of being thought as crazy or being judged.


I think it is too easy to simply categorize mass killers as "mental" or "other" than the rest of the population. Does so-called "mental health issues" start in the womb, or does it begin in the breakdown of families; mental and physical abuses; lack of nurturing; social isolation; cultural differences and prejudicial treatment; poor diet which can affect the brain; lack of being taught how to deal with personal problems and how to communicate with others effectively; breakdown of the educational system in so many schools and cities across the country; violent images in television and movies? ... I don't know the answers.

Probably all of those things.


I've been mulling this over needless to say and what keeps coming back to me is the fact that while these massacres seem to have become more prominent, violence is down in the U.S. It is remarkable to hear that in D.C. we are on a track to have just under 100 murders this year--horrible, but at the height of gun violence we had 550 a year.

It is maybe not rational to ask rational questions such as what is the likelihood of being killed in a gun massacre vs. many other ways of dying? These events are horrific even if they actually are very, very unlikely and kill only a small number of people.

As regulars at FSU well know, I am not pro-gun. I'm seeing so many people saying Now is the time to change our laws. But our laws can only be changed if our collective attitudes change. We've seen this with gay rights. Politicians can't force change, it has to come first at the social, cultural level.

And sadly to me, we are nowhere near there.

Even with issues that the public has asked for change, politicians let themselves be swayed by more powerful entities.

Sylvia
12-15-2012, 02:30 PM
Associated Press' latest article (ETA: being updated throughout Saturday): http://bigstory.ap.org/article/police-world-wonder-about-conn-shooting-motive

The first child victim is identified by name :(: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/puerto-rico-family-mourns-after-us-school-shooting-0

missing
12-15-2012, 02:38 PM
I've been mulling this over needless to say and what keeps coming back to me is the fact that while these massacres seem to have become more prominent, violence is down in the U.S. It is remarkable to hear that in D.C. we are on a track to have just under 100 murders this year--horrible, but at the height of gun violence we had 550 a year.

It is maybe not rational to ask rational questions such as what is the likelihood of being killed in a gun massacre vs. many other ways of dying? These events are horrific even if they actually are very, very unlikely and kill only a small number of people.

As regulars at FSU well know, I am not pro-gun. I'm seeing so many people saying Now is the time to change our laws. But our laws can only be changed if our collective attitudes change. We've seen this with gay rights. Politicians can't force change, it has to come first at the social, cultural level.

And sadly to me, we are nowhere near there.

Of course politicians can force change. Look at Social Security, food stamps, daylight savings time, lower levels of cigarette use. Look at desegratation.

The old saw was you can't legislate love. Maybe you can't, but you can establish through laws a society that tolerates love in all its different ways.

People smoke less because cigarettes cost more and it's harder to find places where it's acceptable to smoke. Cigarettes cost more because taxes have gone up. It's harder to find places to smoke because local and state laws have been passed outlawing smoking in public places.

Tax guns. Tax bullets. Limit places where guns can be carried (as opposed to passing laws allowing guns on college campuses and churches).

This ain't rocket science. There are models to follow. There just has to be the willingness to do it.

BlueRidge
12-15-2012, 02:49 PM
Oh I'd say that politics is a lot harder than rocket science, as one who has participated in it. If it weren't we'd already have all those laws.

Rocket science you just have to deal with laws of physics. Politics, you have to deal with human beings.

*Jen*
12-15-2012, 02:51 PM
Even with issues that the public has asked for change, politicians let themselves be swayed by more powerful entities.

Then ask again. Politicians aren't in power independently of the population. You live in a democracy. If you want change, you can force it. You have a vote, you have a voice and you have agency. Take to the streets, lobby the media, parliament, anyone who will listen. Put pressure on the government, because ultimately, they're accountable to you. If every single person who thinks their opinion doesn't matter banded together, think about what could happen. Look at the Arab Spring. They wanted change and they forced it, and in some places it happened relatively peacefully.

The government could of course tax bullet, tax guns etc, but they're not going to unless it's what an overwhelming amount of people want. To say there's nothing you can do is a cop out. Large numbers of voters demanding change can be one hell of a powerful entity.


Rocket science you just have to deal with laws of physics. Politics, you have to deal with human beings.

And people aren't rational or logical the way physics is. If they were, this wouldn't have been allowed to happen again, and again, and again.