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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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Cachoo
12-15-2012, 04:13 AM
Thanks for the link Bostonfan--that indeed is the teacher.

liv
12-15-2012, 04:20 AM
It makes me so upset to hear the same story over and over and over again and yet no one can do anything about it.

Mass shootings are horrendous at any time, but the ages of these children seems to make something evil turn to something even more deplorable. Usually the perpetrator has some sort of grudge against the population he attacks, something that makes it justifiable in his mind, but what have 5 year olds done to anyone?

It seems to me that there will be a great many teachers who did a great many great deeds to keep their students safe in a situation none of them should have ever had to face.

Maybe Anderson cooper had it right when he didn't want to say the shooter's name because he didn't want the guy's name to be known/made famous because of his actions.

SO sad for everyone involved tonight. It just makes me cry.

AxelAnnie
12-15-2012, 04:23 AM
I guess the mind boggles and some of us tend to fall back on the "comfort" of God and religion as panacea, so we don't have to examine ourselves and the stark reality of the culture we live in.

When the unbelievable "no words for it" tragedy of the nanny who knifed and killed two young children (ages 6 and 2) in New York City occurred a few months ago, it seemed to pass by almost unnoticed. God being "removed from the schools" can't be knee-jerkingly blamed for their deaths.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/05/new-york-nanny-accused-fatally-stabbing-children-reportedly-admits-to-hurting/

iI don't think that the Nanny stabbing was ignored...I know about it in my tiny enclave in Northern California.
As to Huckabee comments....I would be hard pressed to know if they were more or less appropriate than most of what I saw and heard today. pictures of the children., calls for gun control, calls to report and catalog people with mental disorders, calls to arm teachers, more security..... on and on.

Anyone familiar with Dennis Prager? He has an interesting take on American society since we began taking judgment and right and wrong and winning and losing out of schools and life. It has left us in a kind of free for all.


iI want to know why the mother had those guns in her house with an obviously troubled kid? of course..... why does anyone have those guns in their house? And I am proud second amendment

Prancer
12-15-2012, 04:26 AM
Mass shootings are horrendous at any time, but the ages of these children seems to make something evil turn to something even more deplorable. Usually the perpetrator has some sort of grudge against the population he attacks, something that makes it justifiable in his mind, but what have 5 year olds done to anyone?

Mass killers often have a grudge against a single person; they just kill a lot of other people at the same time.

And there are many reasons why someone with mental problems might have a grudge against the students of his teacher-mother, I would think.

overedge
12-15-2012, 04:34 AM
As to Huckabee comments....I would be hard pressed to know if they were more or less appropriate than most of what I saw and heard today. pictures of the children., calls for gun control, calls to report and catalog people with mental disorders, calls to arm teachers, more security..... on and on.


Seriously? Someone blaming the lack of religion - his own religion, of course - in schools for what happened might be less appropriate than e.g. calls for gun control? IMHO what Huckabee said is way less appropriate than most of what's been said today.

aftershocks
12-15-2012, 04:40 AM
Right, AxelAnnie, the nanny killings tragedy was not ignored and it was not a mass killing but it probably did instill massive horror among everyone who heard about it, and outpourings of sympathy, love and support for the bereft parents, in addition to some exploitative coverage by media rags. I didn't hear much about it until well after it occurred, but that's neither here nor there.

What can be said in any case in the face of such unspeakable acts of violence against children, against humanity. The sad and worrisome thing is the increasing frequency of violent and senseless tragedies.

Prancer
12-15-2012, 04:41 AM
The sad and worrisome thing is the increasing frequency of violent and senseless tragedies.

Are they increasing in frequency?

aftershocks
12-15-2012, 04:45 AM
^ It does seem so in our global media age. But of course senseless and violent stuff has occurred throughout the ages of so-called civilization.

cruisin
12-15-2012, 04:46 AM
yes, it just does not seem possible to make that kind of prediction.

Somehow it seems as if we need to have a way to getting to people earlier, whether they will become violent or not, to make mental health care more accessible and communicate with people who may be troubled that there is help and that there is not a stigma to seeking it. I know there's been a lot of efforts in this way, but still we don't spend a lot of resources on mental health care, maybe more can be done.

The stigma part is probably the hardest to overcome. People are judged if they seek mental health care. It stinks, but it is true.

aftershocks
12-15-2012, 05:09 AM
^ There are all kinds of people with different kinds of emotional problems, anxieties, depression, etc., that do not necessarily lead them to commit violent acts.

I think it is too easy to simply categorize mass killers as "mental" or "other" than the rest of the population. Does so-called "mental health issues" start in the womb, or does it begin in the breakdown of families; mental and physical abuses; lack of nurturing; social isolation; cultural differences and prejudicial treatment; poor diet which can affect the brain; lack of being taught how to deal with personal problems and how to communicate with others effectively; breakdown of the educational system in so many schools and cities across the country; violent images in television and movies? ... I don't know the answers.

cygnus
12-15-2012, 05:10 AM
What can be said in any case in the face of such unspeakable acts of violence against children, against humanity. The sad and worrisome thing is the increasing frequency of violent and senseless tragedies.

This article shows that homicide rates have been steadily decreasing throughout American history , although the earlier figures are estimates, I would assume. http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/06/long-term-trend-in-homicide-rates.html


No comfort to the families in this tragedy, of course.

Matryeshka
12-15-2012, 05:11 AM
^ It does seem so in our global media age. But of course senseless and violent stuff has occurred throughout the ages of so-called civilization.

It's actually not. Violent, mass crime is decreasing. I've also seen reports this would be the second largest school shooting behind Virginia, but that's not true either. Some of the worst school shootings happened in the 1930s. Some in the 19th century. This is not to downplay this tragedy, but I'm a wee bit tired of everyone saying things like this never happened in the past when we did x, y, and z. If it didn't happen to you in the past, then you were lucky. Especially if you didn't lock your doors. Hell, in the past, a lot of what's considered reprehensible would not only be considered just clean fun but actively encouraged.

The biggest change isn't even necessarily the internet and the availability of media but how we think about news. Not to long ago, if tragedy struck, you didn't talk about it. It was private, it was local news and those not directly involved just didn't let it become part of our lives. Same way back in the day, everyone knew sometimes people disappeared, and sometimes they came back but weren't quite right, which could be a euphemism for anything from rape to a prison sentence to going to a rival college. Tragedy happened, but you didn't talk about it. Now, we talk about it. A lot. Our thinking has switched from, well, it happened, there's nothing we can do but pray/pick up the pieces/move on to why did this happen/how can we prevent this from happening again.

I'm not making a value judgement, btw, but we are not any more violent now than in days of yore. We are a lot less violent, across the board.

Alex Forrest
12-15-2012, 06:05 AM
And Scotland responded with some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. And there have been no more mass shootings.

I am filled with such rage and fury and frustration. I will never forget the night in 1999, eight weeks after Columbine. I was still working late at night and my boss, the president of the Brady Campaign came in from the Hill. The Senate had just passed a law sponsored by Senator Larry NRA Craig which actually loosened the gun show loophole. My president who had been the legislative force behind the Brady bill and assault weapon ban said, more than twenty kids just died and the Senate made it easier to get guns. The look on his face was indescribable.

Fast forward now and every single gun law is weaker or non-existent. Concealed carry is a right in every state. The CDC can't access gun tracking data for public health research, it's illegal. Not even police chiefs have access to ATF data. The individual right to a weapon is now enshrined in our constitutional law thanks to the Miller case and gun sales are up sharply because Obama is going to "take them away."

I am so sad and so sickened.

This. I'm sorry for quoting an entire post.

Alex Forrest
12-15-2012, 06:10 AM
Just what the grieving families and community need to hear at this time. The milk of human kindess runs kind of thin through his veins. Or is this his version of "Christian compassion"? Unbelievable.

Yeppers, it made it to my FB wall, and I let the poster have it. I told him if God is in their hearts, then she is in your schools. I have enough maturity to absorb ideas that offend me, this person didn't. He called he a pagan, deviant, disgusting pervert (umm, then why have we been FB friends for like seven years?) then unfriended me. Now is not the time to say that god/dess is not in schools. Sheesh.

genevieve
12-15-2012, 06:17 AM
god, I'm watching the teacher on 20/20 now. Unbelievable courage.