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View Full Version : UPDATED Connecticut elementary school shooting - 20+ dead (incl gunman)



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AYS
12-14-2012, 10:53 PM
I just turned it on a bit ago, but CNN has prefaced at least some of their reports with cautions that it is difficult to confirm events at this point, and this is what they've heard from wherever, etc.

This is an extraordinary event, in scope more complex and emotionally wrenching than even similar recent shootings. Both the numbers involved and the fact that so many children were killed have us all freaking out, and trying to understand what the hell happened, and why.

Vash01
12-14-2012, 10:55 PM
I don't think they should be sold automatic weapons, though. Fine, in this country it's a right to own a firearm. Then get a hunting rifle that can only fire one round at a time. (Or whatever the equivalent is - I know next to nothing about guns.) Just because it's your right to own a gun doesn't mean you should be able to legally buy one whose sole purpose is to kill as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time.

I know what you are saying. Personally, I would like to see a constitutional amendment to take away the right for every citizen to carry guns. I know it's not going to happen, so the next step is to ban assault rifles. Sadly, even after so many innocent lives lost, this country still does not want to ban those weapons. Why does anyone in a civilized society need to carry a gun? There are law enforcement people for that. I don't approve of hunting, but there is no way hunting rifles will be banned, so I have to live with it. Not everyone that owns a gun or an assault rifle is mentally ill, or seeing a psychiatrist, or on mental medicine. Normal people can lose their temper and shoot someone. I know I am in the minority when it comes to gun control, but I believe that at least assault rifles should not be sold anyone that is not going to war.

Jenny
12-14-2012, 10:56 PM
The media did not say these were 'facts'; they were reporting what they had found up to that point, and I didn't see them saying this is the final story. They did go on correcting themselves as more info came in. What did you expect them to do? Talk about something else while this was going on? We all have enough sense to know that it takes time to get the full story.

The problem is that when media says something, people assume it's fact, and that's why it gets repeated. What they need to do is hang onto information until they can confirm it from a credible source - otherwise to name names especially is irresponsible. There is plenty to report in the mean time, and that media has been reporting - background on the school/community, context such as other similar events, background on local gun laws, and for news, numerous eyewitness accounts. The police have now given several briefings, as has the President and the Governor, and there have been additional statements from others to report as well. And, amid all this chaos of information and developments, I think the media could spend a bit more effort doing regular recaps of the FACTS that have been confirmed and by who, and what information is still to come.

And no, we don't all have enough sense to know that it takes time to get the full story. Those "facts" that were later corrected have been spread everywhere, including in this thread. It's impossible to go back and correct it all, and as a result, misinformation continues to fly around the world.

rfisher
12-14-2012, 10:56 PM
I just turned it on a bit ago, but CNN has prefaced at least some of their reports with cautions that it is difficult to confirm events at this point, and this is what they've heard from wherever, etc.

This is an extraordinary event, in scope more complex and emotionally wrenching than even similar recent shootings. Both the numbers involved and the fact that so many children were killed have us all freaking out, and trying to understand what the hell happened, and why.

I don't think normal people can understand. He had his reasons which were valid to him, but only to him. Same as every murderer regardless of the situation.

And how would banning assault rifles have prevented this? He didn't use one. He used hand guns.

Angelskates
12-14-2012, 10:56 PM
The vast majority of people with severe mental illness will not be violent. That is what makes it so difficult to deal pre-emptively with mental illness as a factor in mass shootings. I don't have any expert knowledge but it doesn't seem that mental health providers have any concrete way of predicting who will be violent.

We've seen this with other recent shootings. I believe it was mentioned that it is usually in the early stages of severe mental illness before the full situation is known to mental health providers that this kind of violence manifests.

I think anything that can be done that helps to identify and get help for individuals who may become violent should be, but it isn't likely to prevent shootings from taking place.

In addition, it's hard for anyone, including me, to believe that someone who does this doesn't have a mental illness. Mentally stable people don't commit mass murder. Whether it was an ongoing mental illness, or a temporary psychotic break, I believe anyone capable of this has a mental illness. There's no other way in my mind to explain it, plenty of people have domestic disputes and don't shoot up a kindergarten class. But plenty of mentally ill people have disputes and don't commit mass murder either, so trying to predict who is going to do what, is impossible, even if we do know someone's mental state.

Anita18
12-14-2012, 11:04 PM
I know what you are saying. Personally, I would like to see a constitutional amendment to take away the right for every citizen to carry guns. I know it's not going to happen, so the next step is to ban assault rifles. Sadly, even after so many innocent lives lost, this country still does not want to ban those weapons. Why does anyone in a civilized society need to carry a gun? There are law enforcement people for that. I don't approve of hunting, but there is no way hunting rifles will be banned, so I have to live with it. Not everyone that owns a gun or an assault rifle is mentally ill, or seeing a psychiatrist, or on mental medicine. Normal people can lose their temper and shoot someone. I know I am in the minority when it comes to gun control, but I believe that at least assault rifles should not be sold anyone that is not going to war.
To be fair, my greatest fear is that someone will attack me, or my family, in our homes and given that none of us are in any fighting shape (nearly any fit man would be able to throw us over their shoulders), I wouldn't blame my parents if they wanted a gun in the house for protection. A regular burglar would get the hell out of dodge if he got shot at. If the intruder had more nefarious purposes, we would be pretty screwed, gun or no gun.

But you do not need a fecking ASSAULT RIFLE for protection. That much should be clear to anyone with a brain.

cruisin
12-14-2012, 11:08 PM
The media did not say these were 'facts'; they were reporting what they had found up to that point, and I didn't see them saying this is the final story. What I saw/heard on the videos at different times was : "xxx, what have you found so far? or have they found ......" and so on. They did go on correcting themselves as more info came in. What did you expect them to do? Talk about something else while this was going on? We all have enough sense to know that it takes time to get the full story.

Crusin, in her characteristic way, called this 'the worst ever reporting'.

Really? You want to use this thread to go off on me. And this is what I actually said: Is it me, or is this one of the most ill-reported, by the media, tragedies, ever? The media needs to be more responsible.

Habs
12-14-2012, 11:18 PM
The media needs to be more responsible.

Absolutely. There is no good reason to name names so early - especially since the media was WRONG. It's the rush to be first, and accuracy goes out the window. I was a journalist, I understand the intensity. But there is something to be said for responsibility and integrity as well.

ETA: I am horrified by the number of kids being interviewed and photographed. If my editor had asked me to do that in my reporter days, I would have quit on the spot.

Angelskates
12-14-2012, 11:22 PM
I think the photos of the kids were terrible. And not necessary, the text is devastating enough.

skipaway
12-14-2012, 11:27 PM
Probably should be posted in PI...but I knew someone would make an insane statement like this. :mad:
Why doesn't God send a Lightening Bolt Down on this Idiot? (http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/god-didnt-save-kids-because-theres-no)






Brian Fischer spent the first hour of his radio program today discussing this morning's truly horrific shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut, which he, of course, blamed on the fact that prayer, the Bible, and the Ten Commandments are not taught in public schools.

Fischer said that God could have protected the victims of this massacre, but didn't because "God is not going to go where he is not wanted" and so if school administrators really want to protect students, they will start every school day with prayer

PDilemma
12-14-2012, 11:30 PM
You can pray in a public school. Anyone who wants to can. At any time. Quietly and by yourself. Which is more or less how we should pray anyway. Jesus had something to say about people who pray out loud in public to be seen and it wasn't positive.

Angelskates
12-14-2012, 11:32 PM
Probably should be posted in PI...but I knew someone would make an insane statement like this. :mad:
Why doesn't God send a Lightening Bolt Down on this Idiot? (http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/god-didnt-save-kids-because-theres-no)

Disgusting. This guy obviously doesn't read the same Bible as I do if he thinks God doesn't go where He's not wanted. God is everywhere, idiot. He doesn't come and go.

Whitneyskates
12-14-2012, 11:33 PM
Wow that guy. Prayer isn't going to stop a shooting. Does he not remember Paducah KY. 1997? Michael Carneal opened fire on a group of students who were participating in a prayer group.

Susan1
12-14-2012, 11:34 PM
Moving away from the political arguments for a moment - the grandmother of one of the little girls lost today goes to my church in West Carrollton, Ohio.

Vash01
12-14-2012, 11:35 PM
The Wisconsin shooting took place in a Sikh temple- a holy place.