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View Full Version : Virtue and Moir #21 - Carry On as the Waltz Goes On



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jl22aries
10-31-2012, 02:25 AM
A few scattered points...

I say a big "oh come on!" to anyone who doesn't think their program interprets CARMEN. You guys are right to say there are certainly layers, and intensity, and potential depth in its particular interpretation...but even if you were to take the most reductionist and linear approach to viewing their program, it SCREAMS CARMEN. Seriously, come on.

Also, Martyross I love your brief comment on the dictatorship of fans. That's a seriously interesting and rising phenomenon, all across the board beyond the world of sports. It's really alarming to me to think about how the "lowest common denomination" of public opinion might end up limiting the kinds of art, movies, politics, expressions, and of course sports being produced.

With regards to the one or two who are don't feel the dance is really "modern", I think it is absolutely modern. And I know very little about the history of dance. But absolutely their movements come out of the school of modern dance, in the angles and shapes created by their bodies, the shoulder hunches before the twizzles, the planking of limbs during certain moments (how Tessa's arms are deliberately "stiff", or Scott's final pose). Does anyone here have a background in dance history?

Keep up the interesting convo guys!

jl22aries
10-31-2012, 02:35 AM
Expectations went from...


Oh my Proustable I LOVE this post. Your points about persona on ice and key word: madness. That photo you picked, her eyes...madness! I mean, psychotic, in control, charismatic madness. And you're right, they needed all these years to reach this point. Oh my word it is a lucky thing their bodies allowed them to continue, against all that we know has passed, and that they decided to continue on after 2010 when it seemed as though that they had already achieved their masterpiece performances.

To be sentimental, I do truly hope they have a prolific professional career. Like Buttle or Browning, fine wine that has, with time, gotten even more mind bogglingly amazing.

Proustable
10-31-2012, 02:42 AM
What is her answer?

Essentially, Zoueva has been setting up V/M for Carmen for years; that no other team will get to the plane that V/M will inhabit with this program (the standard to which all Olympic season programs will be measured against) and that the momentum they'll generate will carry them to Olympic gold. (this is based on the google translation and my interpretation of this paragraph)


Only now, after the premiere, it's clear that for many years Zueva masterfully led Tessa and Scott to their "Carmen" as an experienced director is already established big actors for the lead role in their lives. Such programs are usually forced to think with mild annoyance at heart: "Why now, why not in the Olympic year?" Perhaps this is also a hidden account. I can, of course, be wrong, but I believe that in the case of a perfect rental so prominent on a plan to get up level with the program fails Canadians, no dancing couple in the world. And in this case, it is unlikely that the arbitrators will be a lot of doubt as to who is to become a world champion this year and win the Olympics - next year.

Original

Только сейчас, после состоявшейся премьеры, становится понятно, что Зуева много лет мастерски вела Тессу и Скотта к их "Кармен", как опытный режиссер ведет уже сложившихся больших актеров к главной роли их жизни. Подобные программы обычно заставляют подумать с легкой досадой в глубине души: " почему сейчас? Почему не в олимпийский год?" Возможно, в этом тоже таится некий расчет. Могу, разумеется, ошибаться, но полагаю, что в случае безупречного проката столь выдающейся по замыслу программы встать вровень с канадцами не сумеет ни одна танцевальная пара в мире. А в этом случае вряд ли у арбитров появится много сомнений в том, кто должен стать чемпионом мира в этом году и выиграть Олимпиаду - в следующем.

Golightly
10-31-2012, 02:49 AM
What is her answer?

Yeah, what was the answer? :D

As for Tessa not moving like an ice dancer, huh? I'd concede that she didn't show too much face, but if there's something she sure can do is dance. No one creates better shapes with her arms, back and hips, that's why she stands out. I'd say that now she's more mature so she conveys a bit more expression-wise. But, hey, she was certainly moving like an ice dancer here: http://youtu.be/7Xy8Scw8ZeI

Anyway, as a fellow dancer, I'll always defend Tessa, she's amazing and an inspiration.

manhn
10-31-2012, 03:00 AM
I think that the next step for V&M is to continue in this new style but with music not so well-known. I suspect that Marina has that music already planned.

The Accordion
10-31-2012, 03:19 AM
I HAVE AN IDEA! What if the reason they did Carmen this year - is to prove that they can take THE MOST USED MUSIC EVER and make it amazing! So that in the OLYMPIC YEAR - when they choose something like Romeo and Juliet - people don't groan but realize the wonderful possibilities of their farewell piece??!!

Carmen Ovsiannikov
10-31-2012, 03:58 AM
b) It feels like a departure and a continuance of their career. They've never been this dark before. They've never pushed it this far. It's not like anything they've done before. Except all those programs gave them the training, the support to do this one. That gift of character? Think "Funny Face." Portraiture? Their Tango/Waltz OD. Intensity? Farrucas. Lust? Latin trio. Modern movements from Pink Floyd, emotional connection from... well, everything, but lets say Mahler. All those programs... all those masterpieces of choreography..... now they give us this.

c) I love VAYTSEHOVSKAYA's comments. "Why now and not the Olympic year?" I love her answer even more.

Great post Proustable. Your post shows the natural progression and growing maturity of V&M as a team. Not just their technical prowess/glorious skating skills but also as artists. Like you (and a few others), I went from thinking - Carmen? really? to being cautiously optimistic when I read that V&M were using an outside choreographer to being just totally caught off guard and left speechless. I've wanted Tessa and Scott to do a program that was more than just strung together elements; an excercise in showing how to rack up points ever since they skated to Pink Floyd but what they presented last weekend surpassed my wildest expectations.

I do wonder how V&M will top or even match Carmen when it comes time to pick music and create choreography for their Olympic year FD. OTOH, after DelShoes debuted Frida I asked myself the same thing about them and they managed each year since 04/05 to come up with programs that IMO did match and maybe in some cases exceeded what they had with Frida. I hope V&M have Jennifer Swan on speed dial. Given that she also did the Pink Floyd FD, we can see that the pairing of her with V&M really works. An understatement.

zilam98
10-31-2012, 04:50 AM
everytime v/m decide to go modern, they wear black costumes, and they seem to go in that direction just before the olympics. so next year, maybe another program similar to mahler? not that im being cynical about their quadrennial patterns, but that seems to be the case.

martyross
10-31-2012, 06:20 AM
are you guys sure that Carmen is mad? i mean, some moves from Tessa seem to suggest it, but i find that, after all, she's behaving rationally all the time. unless the meaning is that their relationship gets insane at some point. or is it their own vision of the characters? they are two psychotics?

martyross
10-31-2012, 06:23 AM
everytime v/m decide to go modern, they wear black costumes, and they seem to go in that direction just before the olympics. so next year, maybe another program similar to mahler? not that im being cynical about their quadrennial patterns, but that seems to be the case.

oh, no no. what Mahler? next FD belongs to Justin Bieber. they promised me!

lavenderblue
10-31-2012, 06:28 AM
are you guys sure that Carmen is mad? i mean, some moves from Tessa seem to suggest it, but i find that, after all, she's behaving rationally all the time. unless the meaning is that their relationship gets insane at some point. or is it their own vision of the characters? they are two psychotics?

This article (http://www.thestar.com/sports/figureskating/article/1278182--skate-canada-ice-dancing-rewrites-popular-tales-dimanno) is otherwise worthless, but it does offer one useful nugget in Tessa's own comments on their storyline:

“I don’t think you can do Carmen without that element,’’ she counters. “Because Don Josť is really obsessed with Carmen’s sexuality. She’s obsessed with her freedom. Carmen does love Don Josť but I think she’s scared. There was a quote: he can actually touch her soul. And she wants to retain that, not depend on anyone."

My own reading of the program's second half is anger and battle between the two forces, more than madness. But there was a quote somewhere from Scott that I've yet to source where he suggests that Don Jose, at least, does go rather mad by the end.

martyross
10-31-2012, 06:32 AM
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?85551-Elena-Vaitsekhovskaya-s-article-quot-Some-like-it-hot-quot

translation of the Russian article

martyross
10-31-2012, 07:25 AM
Carmen does love Don Josť but I think she’s scared. There was a quote: he can actually touch her soul. And she wants to retain that, not depend on anyone.


thanks.
well, i see where the modernity lies.. i must say i only know the opera and not the novel. in the opera, Carmen doesn't seem this much emotionally involved in this love affair. she seduces him for her own advantage (escaping from prison) and she tells her fellows that she's in love, but she shows so little of real love (nothing, actually) that one wonders if it's just a fickle passion destined to be dumped as soon she's bored. even her lust isn't that evident.
so yes she's scared to loose indipendence, but not because she's too moved by his love, but because she finds him too romantic and possessive for her taste. i guess that in 19th century this was the way men thought and behaved: they owned the world, they could do anything they liked. so she behaves like a man here; shockingly for those times, the roles are inverted.
we are much more used to woman indipendence, that's why i think Tessa is mentioning a psychological motivation that belongs to our days, rather than to the original version.
i don't know if it's the same in other countries, but in mine, many men, sadly, kill their women when they're dumped or for insane jealousy. Carmen's story is very modern for its age, and Tessa&Scott really show this.

P.s. saw this link posted on Fan Forum. a nice blog with pics: http://fyeahvirtueandmoir.tumblr.com/

HSGP21
10-31-2012, 10:40 AM
This article (http://www.thestar.com/sports/figureskating/article/1278182--skate-canada-ice-dancing-rewrites-popular-tales-dimanno) is otherwise worthless, but it does offer one useful nugget in Tessa's own comments on their storyline

I love this quote out of the article- The Olympic and two-time world champions from London, Ont., are famously not a couple off the ice and have never promoted that illusion on the ice. What team has she been watching??

IoanaC
10-31-2012, 11:44 AM
I love Vaitsekhovskaya's article (and the timing is great, as they need some Russian support this season), except for there not being any mention of Jennifer Swan and Marina being given full credit, when her real input was probably only about 20%.