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View Full Version : Virtue and Moir #21 - Carry On as the Waltz Goes On



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professordeb
10-27-2012, 04:31 AM
OK, I posted this in Skate Canada, but thought posting it here as well might help the perspective a bit.

Tessa & Scott lost it solely on the levels and some GOE.
First YP
V/M got Level 3; base of 6, GOE of +1 = 7 C/L got Level 3; base of 6, GOE of +.36 = 6.36 Advantage V/M of .64
Second YP
V/M got level 2; base of 5, GOE of .79 = 5.79 C/L got level 3; base of 6, GOE of +.29 = 6.29 Advantage C/L of .57
STw
V/M got level 3; base of 5, GOE of 1 = 6.00 C/L got level 4; base of 6, GOE of +1 = 7.00 Advantage to C/L of 1.0
NtMiSt
V/M got level 2; base of 5, GOE of 2 = 7 C/L got level 4; base of 6, GOE of 1.29 = 7 Advantage C/L +.79
RoLi
V/M got level 1; base of 1.5, GOE of .43 = 1.93 C/L got level 4; base of 4, GOE of 1 = 5 Advantage to C/L of 3.07
That gave C/L an advantage of 4.72

Not quite sure why some elements were only given a GOE of +1 when it's clear a couple had mostly 2's. For instance both V/M and C/L had mostly GOE Of 2's for their YP and their footwork yet only received +1. Anyway, the biggest reason C/L are so close to V/M is that RoLi (rotational lift?). I'm sure once they see the protocols and view the video they will know what they need to do to kick up those numbers. PCS numbers looked fair to me.

Manaud
10-27-2012, 04:37 AM
For those that saw it, did Scott look ok? Like did he look like his neck was hurting? Also what was their reaction to the scores? Did he hit her with his hand?

Sorry about the questions.



They definitely looked stuck on the last lift. I was in the other corner so it was hard to tell but it was not smooth. Almost looked as if her dress was choking him. Lots of small mistakes that will be corrected.

It is important to say that the italians skated a beautiful program, obliviously they do not have the same edge quality, speed or difficulty, but they did have an excellent performance

Proustable
10-27-2012, 04:52 AM
No one scored a level four on the Yankee Polka. This was probably a tough panel too. Which is terrific for early season.

IoanaC
10-27-2012, 04:56 AM
On second viewing, I like this program even more. It's really beautiful. Hope they can sort out the problems quickly.

I tried to focus on the step sequence, and their edges didn't seem shallow to me. Maybe they don't have the necessary number of steps and turns to meet the criteria? These rules are very tricky.
I'm impressed by C/L's level 4 sequence!

Proustable
10-27-2012, 05:02 AM
On second viewing, I like this program even more. It's really beautiful. Hope they can sort out the problems quickly.

I tried to focus on the step sequence, and their edges didn't seem shallow to me. Maybe they don't have the necessary number of steps and turns to meet the criteria? These rules are very tricky.
I'm impressed by C/L's level 4 sequence!

Neither their polka nor the steps were called level four. Which do you mean?

Lissa
10-27-2012, 05:06 AM
OK, I posted this in Skate Canada, but thought posting it here as well might help the perspective a bit.

Tessa & Scott lost it solely on the levels and some GOE.
First YP
V/M got Level 3; base of 6, GOE of +1 = 7 C/L got Level 3; base of 6, GOE of +.36 = 6.36 Advantage V/M of .64
Second YP
V/M got level 2; base of 5, GOE of .79 = 5.79 C/L got level 3; base of 6, GOE of +.29 = 6.29 Advantage C/L of .57
STw
V/M got level 3; base of 5, GOE of 1 = 6.00 C/L got level 4; base of 6, GOE of +1 = 7.00 Advantage to C/L of 1.0
NtMiSt
V/M got level 2; base of 5, GOE of 2 = 7 C/L got level 4; base of 6, GOE of 1.29 = 7 Advantage C/L +.79
RoLi
V/M got level 1; base of 1.5, GOE of .43 = 1.93 C/L got level 4; base of 4, GOE of 1 = 5 Advantage to C/L of 3.07
That gave C/L an advantage of 4.72

Not quite sure why some elements were only given a GOE of +1 when it's clear a couple had mostly 2's. For instance both V/M and C/L had mostly GOE Of 2's for their YP and their footwork yet only received +1. Anyway, the biggest reason C/L are so close to V/M is that RoLi (rotational lift?). I'm sure once they see the protocols and view the video they will know what they need to do to kick up those numbers. PCS numbers looked fair to me.




Thanks for this, even though I still don't get alot of it, I realize the huge advantage that mess of a lift gave the Italians, when V&M change that up & work on their polka part it should be way clear & more into the 70's range correct?

Golightly
10-27-2012, 05:13 AM
I watched it for the third time. This panel was very strict, which is great! I didn't notice anything off edge-wise, so I'm assuming it's the steps? They'll have to ask about that. But I think it is good to face a panel this tough to start the season. Did anyone notice anything terribly off with the step sequence? That level 2 is the only mark I find truly amazing.

IoanaC
10-27-2012, 05:15 AM
Neither their polka nor the steps were called level four. Which do you mean?

You're right, I had read the protocols wrong and thought C/L got level 4 for the steps.

ddtpdx
10-27-2012, 05:45 AM
Looking forward to the FD...
Found a youtube video of their FD practice filled with other parts to make almost complete FD, below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoQ6q0D3zKQ

manhn
10-27-2012, 06:25 AM
Looking forward to the FD...
Found a youtube video of their FD practice filled with other parts to make almost complete FD, below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoQ6q0D3zKQ

Oh man, the contemporary dancey bits are fantastic.

And PLEASE, let that diagonal step sequence be level 4!

Shayii
10-27-2012, 06:51 AM
Ok I lied I didn't watch the FD practice after all. I felt I waited this long, I could wait till tomorrow. I'm really curious to see what their costumes will be like. I hope people in the audience tomorrow like the music from Carmen cuz they'll have to listen to it back to back lol. Anyways it's nice to see the mutual respect skaters have for one another:

“They’re very inspirational for us,” Cappellini said. “We were trying to stay in the kiss and cry area to look at them, but somebody came and told us we had to move.”

“They’re really amazing to me,” added Lanotte. “We feel lucky that we can compete against them.”

Sahararainfall
10-27-2012, 07:02 AM
Well, talk about reality check. The highs and lows can be dizzying. :lol:


...If they had so many problems in SD i think we need to be ready they will not show full potential of there FD tomorrow, because this FD is most difficult i ever saw under COP.

Good luck to them tomorrow.

Okay. Readjusting expectations. Hope they have a clean skate.

Carmen Ovsiannikov
10-27-2012, 07:19 AM
I watched the SD five times in a row and strictly as a piece of choreography, I'm in total agreement with Cherub; what a glorious, stunning program. Like the FD, this is what I've been missing seeing in icedance for the most part (to be fair P&B have continued doing what I would call "complete" programs). It's not just a bunch of required elements linked together with nothing of note in between but full of wonderful transitional moves and little highlights and touches here and there that make it complete. Even the costumes were beautiful; I hope V&M don't change those. I didn't realize there is a theme to the SD; they really don't even need a theme. The program and skating stands on it's own. Even if you turn the sound off, this is a Waltz through and through. V&M really set a mood.

As for the skating, I kind of get what Lissa is getting at. I admit I expected to see a far worse performance than what I did after I read through this thread as I waited for the SD to load. I was expecting something that looked like V&M's OD performance at 2009 Worlds. A program full of clear miscues and outright mistakes. That was a bad performance. I realize it's a different year, different Olympic cycle but I used it as a reference as what a bad performance would be for me.

It's true you can't see it when Scott hits Tessa from the angle the youtube footage was taken. The only clear mistakes or rather moments I could tell something was off were the Yankee Polka and the lift. Scott seemed to be off in the timing or rather there was some hesitation. I can see where V&M's overall performance wasn't as fast as we've seen them at times but overall I didn't even see where the rest of the performance suffered all that much. Again, going back to the disastrous OD in 2009, not only were there clear mistakes; big ones and a number of little hesitations but the entire performance was brought down a few notches. I really didn't see that here. I need to watch the Waltz a few more times.

I get that the judges had to lower the marks for those segments plus V&M would have lost +GOE's for the Yankee Polka and the lift but it also seems they didn't quite get credit for all the things I feel they did right. Not only is the footwork difficult but also the intertwined arm and handholds with the hands behind their backs as they skate and the changes in hand holds where their arms get looped over and around their heads.

I get that C&L skated better but wouldn't Tessa and Scott have started out with a higher base mark? And ITA V&M's overall skating skills are still better than those of C&L. So if V&M have another not perfect performance and someone like B&S skate clean they would B&S also be placed close or above them?

I don't know, I think I should hold off on any further critiquing of the marks and see how V&M skate and are marked at Cup of Russia when hopefully they will skate full out and the performance is totally cleaner.

However, I do hope that we don't see all the little nuances removed from the program in order to make up the levels.

ETA:
I just read about Scott seeming to have issues with Tessa's skirt wrapping around him. It would be a shame to have to change Tessa's dress. I'm surprised. In the past Tessa had tended to wear longer skirts but this one seems short enough and even the design of the skirt wouldn't have seemed to be an issue.

Here's hoping for a better FD.

Shayii
10-27-2012, 07:35 AM
Posting one more thing before I go to bed. Here's the post SD interview with Scott saying he hit Tessa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA-juxmcZOg

I really adore Scott's outfit. And yes, here's to a better FD tomorrow!

Bournekraatzfan
10-27-2012, 08:04 AM
I thought the program was stunning! Does anyone know the storyline - something about a troubled girl in a village? Is he supposed to be a royal?

Tracy said that in this dance, Tessa is portraying “a troubled young woman from the village” and Scott a wealthy man, “and he is the one who ends up being able to bring her happiness” (TSN broadcast)

She also said that people have come up to her and said that “V&M’s SD is spectacular”.


For the life of me, I do not see where he hit her :confused:


You can see Scott’s expression change to one of concern/regret for a second. He kissed her arm right after that accidental hit—it was really sweet.