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aftershocks
10-23-2012, 02:07 AM
^^ (Re judiz, post #29) Yes, in 2003 - 2004 season, Johnny did it the very hard way and prevailed with great determination and beautiful programs (even with a certain U.S. official warning him that "We're not going to do you any favors"). ;) I doubt any of the skaters are ever looking for "favors," just looking to be properly rewarded for their hard work and best efforts.

Right, doing well on the GP does not ensure Nationals success. Jeremy did win GPF in December 2008, and then won Nats in January 2009 for the first time. The question this GP season is whether any U.S. guys will make the GPF, and if so, who? Will there be more than one U.S. guy at GPF? To a great degree, being at GPF is not as important as performing relatively well during the early season and then hitting your stride at Nationals and Worlds.

judgejudy27
10-23-2012, 04:13 AM
I think clean Evan without a quad will win over Ricky with three quads (SP+FS). Ricky is a great skater, but he is no where near the level of Evan in every aspect of skating (well, maybe except his quads when he lands them)...and I saw Evan skates not too long ago...

if you are right and the best up and coming man the U.S has could skate cleanly with 3 quads and couldnt beat an old quadless Evan skating cleanly that speaks volumes to the desultory future U.S men are facing.

bardtoob
10-23-2012, 05:55 AM
Dornbush would've had it last year if he just stood up, and it is still waiting for him.

Nomad
10-23-2012, 06:05 AM
Dornbush had boot/blade problems last year. I'm still not counting him out, given Abbott's and Lysaczek's injuries and Weir's "screw CoP" programs.

judgejudy27
10-23-2012, 06:18 AM
Dornbush would've had it last year if he just stood up, and it is still waiting for him.

Seriously? Didnt Abbott have a 180 point LP last year.

Vagabond
10-23-2012, 06:34 AM
So with that in mind it is better to send skaters who could be contenders for 2018 to gain some experience, credence with the judges, and early momentum.

Just fell off the turnip truck, did you?

The USFSA sends the top age-eligible finishers from Nationals, whether they are oldsters, youngsters, or somewhere in between. And although the judges sometimes give a few skaters the benefit of the doubt, they generally mark what they see.

Let the chips fall where they may.

judgejudy27
10-23-2012, 08:22 AM
Just fell off the turnip truck, did you?

The USFSA sends the top age-eligible finishers from Nationals, whether they are oldsters, youngsters, or somewhere in between. And although the judges sometimes give a few skaters the benefit of the doubt, they generally mark what they see.

Let the chips fall where they may.

Wow that was so insightful, as if I didnt know that already. :rolleyes: It is common knowledge there is alot that goes into the results of Nationals each year before the skaters even hit the ice. Of course the USFSA know they will have to follow protocal and send the top finishers to Worlds, which barring a key absence due to injury they do everytime. Hence they do their best to make sure the results come out how they ideally would like them, as long as the performances arent such a radical departure the judges sometimes have no choice.

essence_of_soy
10-23-2012, 01:30 PM
I really like that Ricky skates to programs that are not only inventive, he's become quite a showy, accessible and versatile performer who knows how to sell what he's given. Dornbush reminds me a lot of Paul Wylie.

His Big Band Swing free skate at Finlandia was outstanding both from a technical and presentation point of veiw.

Vagabond
10-23-2012, 03:55 PM
Hence they do their best to make sure the results come out how they ideally would like them

I take it you believe that they doctored the results so that Ross Miner could go to Worlds instead of Jeremy Abbott in 2011.

Wyliefan
10-23-2012, 04:26 PM
I really like that Ricky skates to programs that are not only inventive, he's become quite a showy, accessible and versatile performer who knows how to sell what he's given. Dornbush reminds me a lot of Paul Wylie.


He reminds me of that whole generation of male skaters -- Paul and Kurt and all those guys who knew how to really sell a program. That's one of the main reasons I like him so much.

pinky166
10-23-2012, 05:42 PM
I really wish Johnny, Evan, and Jeremy would just retire and give some of the younger guys a chance. Jeremy I somewhat understand but he's blown his chances so many times and any hope of an Olympic or World medal now are extremely slim ever if he does miraculously manage to skate cleanly/really well at one of those competitions, which he has yet to do. As for Johnny and Evan, they had the skates of their lives at the 2010 Olympics and there's no way, barring some disaster, they will be able to better their placements in 2014. Dornbush I can see the USFS supporting but I fear even should they skate their hearts out at the next 2 Nationals with programs including quads, USFS would find a way to keep the likes of Aaron, Farris, or Messing off the World or Olympics team should any or all of Johnny, Evan, and Jeremy, and Adam or Ross, just skate somewhat decently at Nationals, and not even necessarily with a quad. USFS needs to wake up and smell the coffee and look at the scores Aaron and Farris have posted in recent international competitions. For example, I know Razzano skated well at Nationals while Farris did not, but the fact that Doug did not execute a clean quad in either program, they attempted comparable content, and Farris still managed to land and rotate most of his jumps speaks to the issue of having a skater like Razzano, whose ISU SB is 192, place 5th at Nationals while a skater like Farris, whose ISU SB is just under 222 (with junior programs), and has scored well over 200 numerous times internationally, places 16th shows just how ridiculous and uncorrelated to international scoring the US Nationals are...

Sylvia
10-23-2012, 05:49 PM
Razzano landed 7 clean triples in his Nationals FS (4th place) and doubled his planned 4T. I have no doubt that Farris, like Dornbush, will be amply rewarded by the judges when he skates well at Nationals.

pinky166
10-23-2012, 05:55 PM
Razzano landed 7 clean triples in his Nationals FS (4th place) and doubled his planned 4T. I have no doubt that Farris, like Dornbush, will be amply rewarded by the judges when he skates well at Nationals.

I'm not talking about TES, I mentioned that Razzano skated well. The issue was that his PCS were around or over 10 points higher than what he's received internationally. Giving that kind of PCS inflation to some skaters and not others is what causes the playing field at Nationals to be unevenly leveled and warped, and that is why I fear USFS can adjust PCS scores accordingly to send who they want to the Worlds and Olympics, regardless of if others skate better. Also Max Aaron has gotten pretty strong PCS in his international competitions and similar to Farris was hosed on PCS in the FS at Nationals thus preventing him from placing higher.

Sylvia
10-23-2012, 05:58 PM
Razzano has skated much better at Nationals (FS in 2012, SP in 2011) than he has internationally to date.

pinky166
10-23-2012, 06:01 PM
Razzano has skated much better at Nationals (FS in 2012, SP in 2011) than he has internationally to date.

But shouldn't PCS be relatively constant? Or well, I see your point, it should reflect the quality of the program. However, Doug did skate strong FS programs at the past 2 Skate Americas but received much lower scores, particularly regarding PCS. The issue I have mainly with nationals is uneven score inflation across the field.