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hennagaijin
10-21-2012, 03:28 PM
1991........the year USFSA predicted.......no guaranteed an American sweep by the USA women. This to be done by Yamaguchi,Harding and Kerrigan ---- who had won
NOTHING internationally ever. Not to mention , it had never been done, and Midori was in the peak of her career. OP warm ups ,Midori blind sided by worst in the
world, and VOILA !!!.......mission accomplished. Obviously they knew something the rest of us didn't. The day skating lost all credibility.

judgejudy27
10-21-2012, 05:58 PM
I remember the overall excitement of the 91 Worlds in every discipline. It was one of my favorite Worlds ever. The big 3 way battle for gold in the dance event between Usova & Zhulin, Duchensays, and Klimova & Ponomarenko. Poor Usova & Zhulin led after the CDs and OD, had 4 1st place votes in the FD and still finished 3rd somehow. They beat K&P in the CDs, OD, and I think 7 of the 9 judges had them over K&P in the FD, but the way the ordinals came out that still dropped them even behind K&P. Incredibly unlucky. This was the only time other than the 94 Europeans and 94 Olympics you really felt 3 times were fighting so strongly for the gold at once.

The ladies event had such excitement going in with the talk of the big 3 way battle between Yamaguchi, Harding, and Ito, and there was also excitement about the young Bonaly. Nobody even talked about Kerrigan, so the U.S sweep was a total surprise.
This was the only major event Harding would ever skate well enough to strongly contend in ever again. I also remember personal breakthrough performances for a young Josee Chouinard who came 6th and the often nervy Joanne Conway of Britian who came 7th. This was the first time Joanne had ever skated so well in a major event, and the last. Josee although she would come higher than 6th in a couple of future Worlds, and did not have all her triples yet, skated to her then potential in a major event for the only time she would in her whole career.

Brasseur & Eisler were actually favored to win the pairs this year and did win the short program, but they were simply eclipsed by the amazing free skate of Miskutienok & Dmitriev. Lloyd singled his double axel in the long but I dont think that made the difference, or atleast it shouldnt have. The biased CBC commentatry by Underhill & Martini really annoyed me here, particularly when it came to Brasseur & Eisler. Kuchiki & Sand winning the bronze was a total surprise. They never ended up in medal contention again, and in fact would be split up in just over a year. I never liked this pairing, and much prefered Meno & Sand in the future, and I even prefered Meno & Wendland who were much lower ranked to this team. I guess they deserved to beat Bechke & Petrov who sadly melted down in their LP though. The other pairs werent shown.

The highlight for me though was the mens amazing. The level was simply amazing, WAY higher than the 1992 Olympics, 1992 Worlds, 1993 Worlds, 1994 Olympics, basically any mens event for years to come. Christopher Bowman who finished 5th behind Petrenko, Browning, Eldredge, and Barna, would have won the 92 Olympics easily with the same performances given the level of skating there.

gk_891
10-22-2012, 05:01 AM
It's to my understanding that none of the top 3 ice dance teams that year had enough first place ordinals to win the free dance outright so they looked at first and second place ordinals. And from what I remember, the winning couple turned out to be Klimova & Ponomarenko. But since they were too far back after the CD's and OD (where the judges really gave them a thumbs down on their material that year), they could only finish as high as second. The next team with the highest number of first and second place ordinals turned out to be Isabelle and Paul. The same thing more or less happened at the 1994 Europeans. It's called cut-through. The 3rd place team cuts though the top 2 teams and one finishes a distant third in spite of being in tight contention for the gold medal.

bardtoob
10-22-2012, 05:15 AM
1991........the year USFSA predicted.......no guaranteed an American sweep by the USA women. This to be done by Yamaguchi,Harding and Kerrigan ---- who had won
NOTHING internationally ever. Not to mention , it had never been done, and Midori was in the peak of her career. OP warm ups ,Midori blind sided by worst in the
world, and VOILA !!!.......mission accomplished. Obviously they knew something the rest of us didn't. The day skating lost all credibility.

Wow, that was dumb . . . Troll to the ignore list.

Seerek
10-22-2012, 07:55 PM
One interesting tidbit from this competition: As this was the first year after re-unification, Germany was allowed to send the combined number of qualified slots from East and West Germany in each of the disciplines. Therefore, in the case of ladies singles, there were 4 entrants: Marina Kielmann (8th), Patricia Neske (9th), Simone Lang (13th) and Cathrin Degler (22nd, replacing Evelyn Grossmann who withdrew before the championships).

lulu
10-22-2012, 09:55 PM
One interesting tidbit from this competition: As this was the first year after re-unification, Germany was allowed to send the combined number of qualified slots from East and West Germany in each of the disciplines. Therefore, in the case of ladies singles, there were 4 entrants: Marina Kielmann (8th), Patricia Neske (9th), Simone Lang (13th) and Cathrin Degler (22nd, replacing Evelyn Grossmann who withdrew before the championships).

That is really interesting! Thanks for sharing that tidbit. :)

gkelly
10-22-2012, 10:06 PM
My perspective is a little bit different because I saw 1991 Worlds years after the fact and saw Missing II before Missing I (so I didn't have the comparison), but I loved Missing II from a pure enjoyment factor. That said, I agree that the Duchesnays did not deserve their win - they were completely outclassed technically and were lucky to be mentioned in the same breath as K&P and U&Z IMO. I also have a slight preference for U&Z winning but would have been OK with K&P.

I totally agree with this. I loved all three of those free dances -- and several others that year as well, notably Rahkomo/Kokko and Punsalan/Swallow, which were the other ones shown on the US broadcast. But I do think the broadcast was slanted to make viewers root for the Duchesnays, without educating us about the differences in skating quality that are at least as important as the quality of the choreography.


I really don't think it would have happened had she been injury free and not been psychologically affected by the collision. It had not happened earlier in the season at the NHK Trophy, Skate America, or Japanese Nationals. Why should it happen now all of a sudden? Quite simply, because she was injured, in pain, and psychologically affected. She had done that program numerous times in training and in competition and knew when she should make the jump combination, but the fact that her mind was distracted by the injury and the pain mean't that she misjudged it. Inevitably, therefore, the collision was a contributory factor.

Yes, quite likely she was distracted by pain etc. However, taking into account that not all ice rinks are the exact same size and the corners are not all the exact same shape, it's entirely possible that the size or shape of the rink also played a contributory role.

essence_of_soy
10-23-2012, 03:14 PM
In 1993, Kuchiki returned to competition as a singles skater (http://youtu.be/NeEeuyUvYNk). She competed at U.S. nationals where she placed 12th. The next year she was back as a pairs skater, and placed 4th at U.S. nationals with Rocky Marval. Her sister, Tamara, was an ice dancer.

Tamara also skated singles (competing at the 1992 World Junior Championships and the 1992 US National Championships at the senior level.) She teamed up with Neale Smull in 1993/94(?)

I thought Kuchiki and Marvel should have beaten Karen Courtland and Todd Reynolds for bronze in 1994 (and made the Olympic Team in Lillehammer). From memory, K & R made multiple mistakes in their free skate, while K & M skated relatively clean.

olympic
10-24-2012, 08:14 PM
Whatever happened to Evelin Grossmann? Did she just fade or did something happen to her?

gkelly
10-24-2012, 08:37 PM
Evelyn Grossmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Gro%C3%9Fmann)

essence_of_soy
10-25-2012, 01:08 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-1988-1209-021%2C_Simone_Lang%2C_Jutta_Müller%2C_Evelyn_Großm ann.jpg

Ah, the captions I could write.

"Rivals Shmivals. If we dig a hole right here, they'll never find Yamaguchi."

essence_of_soy
10-25-2012, 01:11 AM
Evelyn skated very well in 1993 and 1995 at the German Championships.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72C_iI4sm60&feature=related

lulu
10-28-2012, 03:46 AM
Tamara also skated singles (competing at the 1992 World Junior Championships and the 1992 US National Championships at the senior level.) She teamed up with Neale Smull in 1993/94(?)



Thanks for pointing that out. :) Tamara & Neale competed at the Grand Prix International St. Gervais in 1992 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_International_St._Gervais), winning the bronze medal. Bourne & Kraatz won the gold, Drobiazko & Vangas the silver.

Both Browning & Petrenko had outstanding SPs. I thought Victor's program in particular, was an absolute masterpiece-the height & power he gets on the triple axel is out of this world, not to mention his balletic lines. I love Kurt's footwork in his SP. Two different styles, but I'm so happy that thanks to youtube I can watch these great performances.
Their LPs were wonderful as well. I'm impressed with the transitions in Kurt's LP, and Victor's 2nd triple axel (you can tell how happy he was to land it!). If I was judging, I would have Victor in first place after the SP, and Kurt in first after the LP; but I can certainly see where opinions might differ. :cheer:

Alex Forrest
10-28-2012, 06:32 PM
On the men - I can see the case for Viktor, as he was just so polished and had beautiful positions and lines. But I felt like he could have done so much more and his programs completely let him down. The constant mugging and posing in his long program was a big negative when comparing him to Kurt and the program was also really empty with lots of plain stroking. The last time I re-watched this competition, I was struck by how many connecting steps and footwork Kurt had in his program, even though he didn't really become known for that kind of thing until later in his career. When you add that to the way Kurt pushed the envelope with his combinations, I have Kurt with the win, even taking into account Kurt's Zayak rule violation.

I love these retrospectives. For Kurt or Viktor, it came down to personal taste. I was a balletophile, so Kurt didn't do much for me. I just watched both and there was no 'perfection' in Kurt's moves. God why did he do a sit spin??? Viktor needed the axel-toe, and that's what made the difference. It's all friendly competition. I could have been swayed by the power of Viktor's program.

judgejudy27
10-29-2012, 07:28 AM
Kurt did 3 triple-triples to 0 for Viktor. The difference in technical difficulty was huge. I wouldnt have complained about Viktor winning as I prefered his artistry, and the quality of some of his jumps and spins were outstanding, but I agreed with the result and would have judged it the same way all the same. I am a bigger fan of Viktor than I am Kurt btw. Had Petrenko done the triple axel-triple toe he would have won for sure. Had he even not turned out of the triple loop he might have.