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barbk
10-08-2012, 04:39 AM
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04?pagenumber=1

This could prove to be one of the most important cases this term. Lots and lots of implications.

A.H.Black
10-08-2012, 04:48 AM
This wouldn't just affect organizations like Ebay and Amazon, it would really affect every Salvation Army, Good Will and other charity shops in the country - not to mention put an end to garage sales and church rummage sales. Yikes.

Anita18
10-08-2012, 04:48 AM
That...frankly sounds kind of ridiculous. I guess I'm glad I got my wedding dress used on ebay now while I still have the chance? :lol:

essence_of_soy
10-08-2012, 05:11 AM
That...frankly sounds kind of ridiculous. I guess I'm glad I got my wedding dress used on ebay now while I still have the chance? :lol:

Me too. The guy only wore it once.

A.H.Black
10-08-2012, 05:44 AM
There are several threads about this over on the amazon boards. Apparently there is a bit more to it. For example - text books sold in India are marked "not for sale in the US".

kwanfan1818
10-08-2012, 05:55 AM
Hasn't that meant that first sales are not allowed in the US?

Software works differently, because you aren't buying the software, you're buying a license, and the license can be limited geographically.

overedge
10-08-2012, 07:48 AM
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04?pagenumber=1

This could prove to be one of the most important cases this term. Lots and lots of implications.

Holy cr*p, how many courses did this guy take if he sold his textbooks for more than a million dollars?

If he was buying the textbooks in Thailand and then selling them in the US as a business, basically acting as a book broker, that's a little different from reselling his "own stuff".

zaphyre14
10-08-2012, 01:07 PM
Holy cr*p, how many courses did this guy take if he sold his textbooks for more than a million dollars?

If he was buying the textbooks in Thailand and then selling them in the US as a business, basically acting as a book broker, that's a little different from reselling his "own stuff".

I think the latter is what he was doing - having his relatives buy lots of the cheaper books in Thailand and ship them to him; he then resold them on eBay for less than the price of the American versions, and pocketed the profits. It doesn't say whether he paid sales taxes on the books he sold.

And yes, I think that's a big difference from selling personal property or family heirlooms. I know I inherited a couple housefuls of "stuff" that I've been reselling in bits and pieces to make space and a little extra money. I can't prove where any of it came from and a lot of the ones I know are defunct.

I can't imagine the Supreme Court will ban resales. For one thing, how would they police it?

rfisher
10-08-2012, 02:20 PM
If you drive a foreign vehicle, such as a Honda, how would you trade it? The economic ramifications for this are huge. I sort of understand Wiley's original POV, except for the fact they are greedy pigs and should have charged the same price for the same books here in the US as they are charging elsewhere.

aliceanne
10-08-2012, 04:06 PM
I'm curious as to why U.S. Law doesn't apply. Is the copyright not in the US? If US law doesn't apply then wouldn't the law of the country where the copyright is held apply? People in foreign countries sell their stuff.

I thought there was some kind of personal use test for reselling copyrighted material. Buying in bulk like that - he was obviously not buying the books for his own personal use.

I think also the state governments are after sites such as Amazon and EBay because they refuse to collect sales tax. Although I don't think that is an incentive for consumers to use the sites since you end up paying delivery charges instead.

danceronice
10-08-2012, 04:17 PM
eBay does have an option to do sales tax--not eBay itself as they're not the seller (they take a commission, rather like a real auction) but you do have the option to add state sales tax (if I sell something to a buyer in my own state at checkout I have it set to automatically add tax.) The issue the sites have with adding it isn't so much it'll deter customers as it's not in fact a huge amount, it's that sales tax is a state issue and when you're dealing across state and international lines the math gets fuzzy.

Copyright's always been an in-country issue, but my question is, when it comes to things like antiques--are there countries where the protection is in perpetuity? Because if I wanted to sell, say, my great-great grandmother's furniture, the "copyright" (highly unlikely something over a hundred years old has a trademark) almost certainly has long expired--in the US it's only good for 95 years after the death of the creator.

znachki
10-08-2012, 05:08 PM
Software works differently, because you aren't buying the software, you're buying a license, and the license can be limited geographically.

And that's a case going on right now too. There is a company that's taking digital music, stripping it and "reselling" it for people as second hand.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/new-digital-music-battle-and-online-gaming-political-liability

I have a hard time believing they thought they could do this, since you are just licensing the contents - you don't own it.

I think a lot of people are going to be surprised by this though, because no one reads the terms, except folks like my sister. As part of her job, she spends hours going through all of the licensing agreements at their library.

madm
10-08-2012, 06:00 PM
There are several threads about this over on the amazon boards. Apparently there is a bit more to it. For example - text books sold in India are marked "not for sale in the US".

When I purchased a few international editions of textbooks for my college daughter, I knew the only difference between them and the U.S. version was the outside cover. The insides were identical. This was a great savings on science textbooks that cost hundreds of dollars. However, I also knew that the resale value of the international editions is low. If you go on a site like www.textbooksrus.com (http://www.textbooksrus.com), and you look at the buyback price for international editions vs. U.S. editions, it is really low. I don't know how the person from Thailand was able to rack up $1.2 million in resale value!!!

I worked in publishing for a large company, and we always produced different versions of manuals for sale in different countries because we had to by law. Even if the text was written in English (e.g. for sale in England, Australia, India), the outside had to have a custom cover and part number.

Personally I see nothing wrong with enterprising students saving money on textbooks that are outrageously priced. It's the resale that is the problem, not the purchase. I can see regulating the mass distribution of international editions, but not the single copy sales.

overedge
10-08-2012, 07:27 PM
Personally I see nothing wrong with enterprising students saving money on textbooks that are outrageously priced. It's the resale that is the problem, not the purchase.

But if there's no way to regulate the resale, then publishers have to set the initial price of the textbook to compensate (for lack of a better word) for the resale revenues that they aren't getting any part of.

The quickest way to reduce the prices of new textbooks would be for people to stop buying used copies. I know that's idealistic and it isn't going to happen, but that's what it would take.

Anita18
10-08-2012, 07:53 PM
I think the latter is what he was doing - having his relatives buy lots of the cheaper books in Thailand and ship them to him; he then resold them on eBay for less than the price of the American versions, and pocketed the profits. It doesn't say whether he paid sales taxes on the books he sold.

And yes, I think that's a big difference from selling personal property or family heirlooms. I know I inherited a couple housefuls of "stuff" that I've been reselling in bits and pieces to make space and a little extra money. I can't prove where any of it came from and a lot of the ones I know are defunct.

I can't imagine the Supreme Court will ban resales. For one thing, how would they police it?
I was :eek: when I saw how much cheaper my college science textbooks were in Taiwan than in the US. I thought about doing something like that with my dad (who was working overseas in Taiwan many months of the year at the time), but was too lazy and thought it was a little unethical considering they did have the "not for sale in the US" disclaimer. :lol: