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Rex
10-14-2012, 04:44 PM
Wasn't the ISU also critical of some of Oksana Baiul's skills as well? I remember hearing this somewhere...?

aftershocks
10-14-2012, 06:40 PM
Oksana had technique problems on her jumps, but she always looked beautiful in the air. She also seemed to have trouble with doing difficult combination jumps.

briancoogaert
10-14-2012, 06:49 PM
Wasn't the ISU also critical of some of Oksana Baiul's skills as well? I remember hearing this somewhere...?
I don't know about ISU, but for sure, she had critics from FSUers because she is bad at steps and doesn't have any other turn then the three turn...LOL

duane
10-14-2012, 11:29 PM
http://youtu.be/MdC5G7CDvbI (U.S. Nationals-triple axel)

One of my all-time favorite LPs. Dick Button's enthusiastic commentary says it all.

Rex
10-14-2012, 11:41 PM
Oksana had technique problems on her jumps, but she always looked beautiful in the air. She also seemed to have trouble with doing difficult combination jumps.


I don't know about ISU, but for sure, she had critics from FSUers because she is bad at steps and doesn't have any other turn then the three turn...LOL

I read on the old rssif newsgroups that the ISU dinged several of her moves. But people always justified her flaws because she "skated with her hands". Flaws aside, I'll agree that she was very expressive.

essence_of_soy
10-14-2012, 11:48 PM
Most of Oksana's pro programs reminded me of the show, Drunk Girls Gone Wild.

VIETgrlTerifa
10-14-2012, 11:48 PM
I'm of two minds about Tonya. Tonya in the 1991 and before was a work of art in terms of her skills. Fast spins, huge, beautiful jumps, and brilliant power. Yamaguchi does not hesitate to say she was in awe of Tonya's jumps (saying they were better than Midori's), and there's a reason why Kwan loved Harding's skating.

However, she wasn't perfect and there were serious things she should have worked on that every skater works on. I'm going to say the minority opinion and say that I see why she was 4th at 1993 Nationals. She wasn't the same skater with attack (for many reasons, I'm sure) and her skating DID look dated in 1992 and 1993 compared to her competitors. She was stiff in places, didn't finish her moves, and looked sluggish with bad posture. Those things carry over to how the audience and judges perceive you. As much as I disliked Kerrigan's skating, she wasn't all bad and at least she put effort into it which is more than you can say about Harding outside a great competition. Every skater goes through times where coaches, judges, and their federations tell developing skaters how to improve their presentation and how to sell themselves for the judges. I remember reading that horrible Christine Brennan book and her writing about at some sort of developmental camp, all the skaters (including Yamaguchi) were listening and doing the workshops, which I'm sure they all thought benefitted them in some way. Tonya, was being the stubborn one who thought she didn't need to learn anything. Now, how true that story is, I don't know, but it's consistent with Tonya's attitude and behavior. It's not that she had to listen to everything or conform to every thing they wanted her to conform to, but I'm sure not everything was useless. There are some things judges simply appreciate in this sport and if one is lacking in an important area that their competitors are surpassing you in, it would behoove you to improve in those areas as well.

That said, I think the USFS, did a disservice in a way by playing up their rivalry and exaggerating Nancy's "grace" and "beauty" to Tonya's rougher image. I hate the sexist mold USFS and other federations force upon women skaters because it's incredibly behind the times and is artistically restrictive. I think that fed into Tonya's inferiority complex. However, I will admit that my own personal biases reflect skaters who finish off their moves, have great, coherent choreography, and emphasis line and musicality. I think if Tonya just showed some effort to improve some what in those areas, then she may have been backed up a bit more.

She had a lot of problems growing up, and I understand how that really forms the person one becomes, but some times she simply didn't appreciate anything and her attitude clearly affected her approach to skating. Explanations can't always be used as an excuse. Wasn't it Tonya who received a monetary gift from her fan club, didn't say an once of gratitude? I know a gift is a gift and one shouldn't expect anything in return, but it does show a sort of entitled, ungrateful streak she had. She is also responsible for her own downfall as well as the USFS and those surrounding her.

lulu
10-14-2012, 11:51 PM
Another exhibition from Skate America 1986, ignoring the cheesy 80s music and weird camera effects, the quality of the skating itself is gorgeous: http://youtu.be/ZxiErGRY8E0

:)

If there was no "whack heard 'round the world" what type of trajectory would Tonya's career have taken? Would she had stayed eligible after 1994, or turned professional? Skating wise, were her best days already behind her?

Yes, I realize very speculative question, but hey, this is the trash can. :P

essence_of_soy
10-14-2012, 11:53 PM
Vera Wang's high fashion packaging wasn't enough to conceal that Kerrigan for me, was dull, stiff, nervous and passive.

It was only after her melt-down at the 1993 World Championships, that she finally had some fire and drive to her skating.

VIETgrlTerifa
10-14-2012, 11:56 PM
I think people don't give Kerrigan enough credit some times. I'm not a fan of hers either, but her SP in Albertville was superb, and she does some elements better than Yamaguchi. (Her Lutz combo, a nice double flip?, and a great double axel). She also had transitions, though not nearly as much as Yamaguchi who was just chockfull of those and had much better choreography.

I hated Kerrigan's LPs though, without a doubt. Tastes aside, you can't say she didn't try or practice or work on things. She had better stretch and line in her skating, her carriage was robotic, but it wasn't sloppy, and she moved with conviction (despite her crappy choreography). There were performances where Harding was just lazily moving half-assedly.

lulu
10-14-2012, 11:59 PM
SNIP

Great post. :)

bardtoob
10-15-2012, 12:57 AM
When Tonya was well trained during any period of her skating, her programs looked distinctly modern. She could have performed her 1993 Skate America SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9jDIt7_mA) today with a few upgrades within her grasp (ie changing the required 2F to a 3F) and had no problems scoring well.

VIETgrlTerifa
10-15-2012, 01:15 AM
When Tonya was well trained during any period of her skating, her programs looked distinctly modern. She could have performed her 1993 Skate America SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9jDIt7_mA) today with a few upgrades within her grasp (ie changing the required 2F to a 3F) and had no problems scoring well.

That was beautiful. If only Tonya had skated like that at 1993 Nationals, and kept up a similar pace for 1993 Worlds, so many things would have been different.

leafygreens
10-15-2012, 03:32 AM
I don't know about ISU, but for sure, she had critics from FSUers because she is bad at steps and doesn't have any other turn then the three turn...LOL

Why do people say Oksana only had a 3-turn?

Vash01
10-15-2012, 07:35 AM
When Tonya was well trained during any period of her skating, her programs looked distinctly modern. She could have performed her 1993 Skate America SP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9jDIt7_mA) today with a few upgrades within her grasp (ie changing the required 2F to a 3F) and had no problems scoring well.

I saw it live. I had forgotten it completely (too many years have elapsed). Thanks for the link. I have to admit I was never her fan, but I respected her powerful jumps and spins. She was a little underappreciated, IMO, in general (may be by me too). It is just sad how she ended up out of FS.