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pinky166
10-03-2012, 03:43 AM
IMO, Farris would have placed higher at nationals in both 2012 and 2011 had he skated better. His placements had nothing to do with lack of support from USFS.

Probably right, but I do think it's interesting that, last season at least, he was one of few skaters to receive PCS DE-flation at Nationals compared to internationals, and it's not like he had skated brilliant freeskates on the JGP last season despite all his medals, so that was more something I noted. Other skaters got inflation of PCS in the vicinity of 5 points compared to international, while he lost around 4. The only other skater I can think of that's had that happen at Nationals is Caroline Zhang. Anyways, Brown had a bad FS at Nats too but it didn't hurt his PCS, which was around 5 points higher than what he was getting on the JGP for really good performances. In any event, it's kind of a moot point because skating in an early warmup and not skating well on some level explains the PCS being low even if others weren't docked for it, hopefully he'll skate well at Nationals this season and earn PCS he deserves and it will be a non-issue. I think I'm mostly still a little upset about him not competing on the GP this season and still suspect something fishy went on with USFS regarding that one, but maybe it's for the best.

Anyone know if Harrison has a 3a yet? Maybe he could make the JW team this season if so.

johndockley92
10-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Does anyone think the men's JW team has any chance of not being Chen, Brown, and Farris?

I think that Chen could easily lose his Junior title this season; however if he makes the JGPF, the 3 sent to JR worlds will be set in stone IMO

pinky166
10-04-2012, 10:41 PM
I think that Chen could easily lose his Junior title this season; however if he makes the JGPF, the 3 sent to JR worlds will be set in stone IMO

Well, he didn't do great in the SP but even if the placements stay as is, he should qualify with a 4th place finish, and he's definitely capable of moving up as Choate has no 3a and isn't that great otherwise IMO. Anyways, who do you think would take the title from him besides maybe Vincent Zhou who is too young for JW? Choate, Warren, Dolensky, and Koleto are all moving up to seniors, and Omori and Yostanto haven't exactly been posting huge numbers on the JGP... The junior mens field this season actually seems a bit sparse apart from Chen and Zhou.

Anyways I hope that if Farris were to skate lights out at Nats, he'd at least be considered for 4CC and/or Worlds, I know when Dornbush was sent he was a year or two older than Farris, but he had been on the JGP that fall and apart from the final wasn't even dominating that stage really, placing 4th in one event and not breaking the 200 mark for the one he won.

Speaking of the 200 point mark, a little bit off-topic but considering this thread is about scores, what would you guys consider the ladies equivalent score to the men's score of 200 to be? I was thinking about that the other day and wasn't sure. 150? Ish. I had been noticing that the JGP scores on the ladies side, apart from Radinova, seemed pretty low, with most winners not breaking 160 and sometimes not even 150.

haribobo
10-04-2012, 11:57 PM
Anyways I hope that if Farris were to skate lights out at Nats, he'd at least be considered for 4CC and/or Worlds, I know when Dornbush was sent he was a year or two older than Farris, but he had been on the JGP that fall and apart from the final wasn't even dominating that stage really, placing 4th in one event and not breaking the 200 mark for the one he won.


The years that Dornbush won his silver and went to Worlds, there was no Weir or Lysacek in the mix- his skating at Nationals that year was exceptional, but he might've finished 4th anyway if Johnny and Evan were there. So there was more of a chance for him to break through. This year, not only are Johnny and Evan back and Ricky is still around, but Jeremy, Ross, and Adam are still around, and Armin, Keegan, and Max are skating great too...so unless Josh skates so well that he medals at Nationals and several of the "senior" guys bomb, he'll likely just be on the Junior Worlds team again.

As for who could defeat Nathan at Nationals, probably the poster meant Vincent Zhou. I'm not sure anyone else could barring some crazy fluke injury/loss of skill, but we'll see how the FS in Croatia goes...

Vagabond
10-05-2012, 12:12 AM
As for who could defeat Nathan at Nationals, probably the poster meant Vincent Zhou. I'm not sure anyone else could barring some crazy fluke injury/loss of skill, but we'll see how the FS in Croatia goes...

There is another American man ahead of him in the Croatia Cup at the moment, and it isn't Vincent Zhou.

I also seem to recall something a few years back about how Caroline Zhang was a shoo-in to win Junior Ladies at U.S. Nationals in 2007. :shuffle:

haribobo
10-05-2012, 12:17 AM
There is another American man ahead of him in the Croatia Cup at the moment, and it isn't Vincent Zhou.


Yep, I noticed- but since Nathan's previous FS score was more than 30 points over Harrison's, I'd be pretty surprised if that lead stands, but this is skating so you never know.

pinky166
10-05-2012, 01:10 AM
There is another American man ahead of him in the Croatia Cup at the moment, and it isn't Vincent Zhou.

I also seem to recall something a few years back about how Caroline Zhang was a shoo-in to win Junior Ladies at U.S. Nationals in 2007. :shuffle:

As I mentioned in my post, Harrison Choate is competing as a senior at Nationals, so regardless of if he beats Chen at this JGP or is named to the JW instead of him, he can't be the one to take Nathan's title away from him at Nationals considering they won't be competing in the same event! I was talking about the junior men's field at Nationals, not the US men who are age eligible for junior competitions internationally but are competing senior Nationally (such as Brown, Farris, Choate). Of the US men competing as juniors domestically, Chen and Zhou appear to be the strongest by a large margin at this point (thought Yostanto and Omori do both have 3a).

pinky166
10-05-2012, 01:23 AM
The years that Dornbush won his silver and went to Worlds, there was no Weir or Lysacek in the mix- his skating at Nationals that year was exceptional, but he might've finished 4th anyway if Johnny and Evan were there. So there was more of a chance for him to break through. This year, not only are Johnny and Evan back and Ricky is still around, but Jeremy, Ross, and Adam are still around, and Armin, Keegan, and Max are skating great too...so unless Josh skates so well that he medals at Nationals and several of the "senior" guys bomb, he'll likely just be on the Junior Worlds team again.

As for who could defeat Nathan at Nationals, probably the poster meant Vincent Zhou. I'm not sure anyone else could barring some crazy fluke injury/loss of skill, but we'll see how the FS in Croatia goes...

Fair point but IIRC, Dornbush didn't have a great SP in 2011, he was only 7th after the SP and scored like a 67 or something, so really he just had a great FS and was helped by Abbott's bombing the FS and Rippon's bombing the SP to wind up 2nd after all. Also, I'm not convinced about Evan's comeback atm. There's going to be a lot of competition regardless, I was just sort of ruminating possible scenarios.

johndockley92
10-06-2012, 04:58 PM
to clarify - when I said easily, I didn't mean "easily" per se. I meant that he isn't going to be an automatic winner and that there are a few other men that could take his title should he stumble.