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lulu
09-29-2012, 11:44 PM
Any other fans? :) I love this pair: very exciting and had some brilliant programs. They had innovative moves and were one of the few pairs of the era that could do side-by-side triple jumps.

Unfortunately for them, they didn't have their best performances at the Olympics, but they did win two European Championships and two World medals.

1984 Olympics SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dxg1XG18HM

1984 Olympics LP: http://youtu.be/z-6QpMoMugg (not as good as their SP)

1986 Worlds LP: http://youtu.be/yUjzoFjbETg (I absolutely adore this routine, my favorite of the competition. :swoon:)

1987 Europeans SP: http://youtu.be/w7C_-g7hVnA

1988 Olympics SP: http://youtu.be/ucafXhDo05A :fragile:

1988 Olympics LP: http://youtu.be/Z-HJjczmZmw

because I'm always a fan of a good redemption story...

1988 Worlds SP: http://youtu.be/jPTIjiMHYZ0
1988 Worlds LP: http://youtu.be/A8hNz4yKQaE

To paraphrase Vanessa Williams, I saved the best for last... ;)
1990 Worlds SP: http://youtu.be/ZWocoMOYu4I

1990 Worlds LP: http://youtu.be/pdae_JNL51w

1991 Pro: http://youtu.be/cplMU2Ag7IQ
So many innovative moves in this one routine. :kickass:

Vash01
09-30-2012, 01:16 AM
They did win the bronze at the 1984 Olympics and were poised to move up from there. They looked very good in 1984, as a young, emerging pair. However, with the emergence of Gordeeva-Grinkov, and Valova-Vasiliev as the reigning Olympic champions, S&M had to compete for the third spot for the USSR, which was extremely strong in pairs at that time. In 1989 S&M were still competing, but Selezneva became sick and could not to to worlds. Also at the 1988 Oly they did not skate well, when the Russians had a great opportunity to sweep the pairs podium. They turned pro after 1989, and had only marginal success, AFAIK. However, I loved their pro routine 'Money makes the world go round'- very original and humorous.

Nours
09-30-2012, 01:21 AM
They won silver at 1990 euros and were fourth at worlds the same year with a very nice SP. Well done for pro skaters.

lulu
09-30-2012, 01:44 AM
They did win the bronze at the 1984 Olympics and were poised to move up from there. They looked very good in 1984, as a young, emerging pair. However, with the emergence of Gordeeva-Grinkov, and Valova-Vasiliev as the reigning Olympic champions, S&M had to compete for the third spot for the USSR, which was extremely strong in pairs at that time. In 1989 S&M were still competing, but Selezneva became sick and could not to to worlds. Also at the 1988 Oly they did not skate well, when the Russians had a great opportunity to sweep the pairs podium. They turned pro after 1989, and had only marginal success, AFAIK. However, I loved their pro routine 'Money makes the world go round'- very original and humorous.

Their last season as eligible skaters was the 1989-1990 season, they beat M&D for the Soviet title, but M&D placed ahead of them at Worlds that year.
Agree with you about their "Money Makes the World Go Round" routine, it is also the only pro Selezneva & Makarov program I've found on youtube.

Thanks for bringing up the 1984 Olympic Bronze, I remember the won the bronze, just meant that all in all their Olympic Performances, or rather their 1988 Olympic performance in particular, was not their best performance. Their 1984 SP was quite good. :)

Cherub721
09-30-2012, 03:41 AM
They should have won 1990 Worlds!

Their Night on Bald Mountain pro routine is awesome... too bad it's not on youtube.

lulu
09-30-2012, 04:00 AM
They should have won 1990 Worlds!

Their Night on Bald Mountain pro routine is awesome... too bad it's not on youtube.

Their SP that year was so good. I thought they had the best program of the competition.

judgejudy27
09-30-2012, 04:06 AM
I agree they should have won the 1990 Worlds. Well it is a toss up between them and M&D that year but I would have gone with S&M for sentimental reasons. Gordeeva & Grinkov and Brasseur & Eisler were both held up, G&G with major mistakes in their LP, one which badly disrupted the program, and B&E being the hometown kids and having a great skate for them at that point.

In 1985 they began to challenge Valova & Vasiliev strongly and did beat them twice that season IIRC, and came close to beating them at Europeans and Worlds, winning the short program of both, but just missing due to some mistakes in the LP. It looked like they were the heir apparents to the throne and might become World Champions even next year. However G&G emerging and creating a rivalry with V&V made them an afterthought all of a sudden, and with judges generally not like any country to sweep they were even often relegated to 4th place, sometimes completely undeservedly (eg- losing to Coull & Rawsom at the 86 Worlds). The emergence of G&G really changed everything for them, as they were rising and becoming a threat to V&V's #1 status before then. I think that demoralized them somewhat, and stopped their own growth as skaters from that point on.

Cherub721
09-30-2012, 04:32 AM
I agree they should have won the 1990 Worlds. Well it is a toss up between them and M&D that year but I would have gone with S&M for sentimental reasons.

Not only sentiment, IMO S&M had much better choreography. M&D's folk program was really not strong.

judgejudy27
09-30-2012, 05:55 AM
Not only sentiment, IMO S&M had much better choreography. M&D's folk program was really not strong.

S&M also had bigger tricks at that point, so I think you are right. S&M for gold at those Worlds, M&D for silver, G&G for bronze with a 4th place in the LP, and B&E for 4th with a 3rd place over G&G in the LP. Those SHOULD have been the final results of those Worlds.

Vash01
09-30-2012, 06:12 AM
I just watched their 1990 worlds LP. S&M had a couple of mistakes on sbs jumps but they were nowhere as jarring as G&G's mistake on the sbs jump sequence. This pair should have placed higher than G&G, and may be higher than M&D who had just one minor mistake on a lift. G&G should not have placed higher than 3rd in this competition. M&D had not yet matured, and Brasseur & Eisler skated considerably slower (though cleaner). It seems like the judges and may be the Russian fed had written off S&M at that point, and it did not matter what they actually did on the ice. They looked so disappointed in the K&C!

Cherub721
09-30-2012, 02:46 PM
Agree with S&M, M&D, and G&G for the podium.

Here is Night on Bald Mountain, feel free to upload to youtube, I didn't make the video http://www.sendspace.com/file/to628r I believe this was the same competition where V&V skated to Swan Lake with one skate and one slipper - ubervoidy! If anyone knows of other pro stuff, please share!

lulu
09-30-2012, 03:31 PM
Agree with S&M, M&D, and G&G for the podium.

I would have been perfectly happy with that outcome as well.


Here is Night on Bald Mountain, feel free to upload to youtube, I didn't make the video http://www.sendspace.com/file/to628r I believe this was the same competition where V&V skated to Swan Lake with one skate and one slipper - ubervoidy! If anyone knows of other pro stuff, please share!

Thank you so much! Love that routine, everything from the choreography to Larisa's multi-colored hair. :swoon:

It's too bad that S&M were sick and missed the World Championships in 1989, they won the Soviet nationals and European Championships that year (G&G did not skate at either of those events). I'm not sure they would have necessarily would have won against G&G, even if they deserved to, but barring a disaster, they probably would have won another silver medal at those worlds.

judgejudy27
09-30-2012, 07:18 PM
I just watched their 1990 worlds LP. S&M had a couple of mistakes on sbs jumps but they were nowhere as jarring as G&G's mistake on the sbs jump sequence. This pair should have placed higher than G&G, and may be higher than M&D who had just one minor mistake on a lift. G&G should not have placed higher than 3rd in this competition. M&D had not yet matured, and Brasseur & Eisler skated considerably slower (though cleaner). It seems like the judges and may be the Russian fed had written off S&M at that point, and it did not matter what they actually did on the ice. They looked so disappointed in the K&C!

I think the Russian fed. definitely were ready for S&M to retire at that point. They had no idea G&G were about to retire, and they had Bechke & Petrov, Shishkova & Naumov, and Eltsova & Bushkov all coming up as well. A strong result, let alone a World title, would have encouraged them to continued possibly, and that is the last thing they wanted. Maybe if the Russian fed. had in contract they would take it as a retirement gift and skate off in the sunset if they got a good result they would have given them more support for those Worlds, lol!

B&E skated well but they had by far the simplest jumps, landed low and put a hand down on both throws it looked like, and like you said were slow. They did have an amazing twist and lifts and an inspired performance level though, and of course the home crowd advantage.



It's too bad that S&M were sick and missed the World Championships in 1989, they won the Soviet nationals and European Championships that year (G&G did not skate at either of those events). I'm not sure they would have necessarily would have won against G&G, even if they deserved to, but barring a disaster, they probably would have won another silver medal at those worlds.

G&G were amazing at the 89 Worlds. I highly doubt S&Z would have even been capable of outskating them there, but they definitely should have had the silver had they been able to compete. It was really an empty field.

Vash01
09-30-2012, 07:27 PM
It's too bad that S&M were sick and missed the World Championships in 1989, they won the Soviet nationals and European Championships that year (G&G did not skate at either of those events). I'm not sure they would have necessarily would have won against G&G, even if they deserved to, but barring a disaster, they probably would have won another silver medal at those worlds.

That was fate working against S&M. I think they would have won the silver in 1989 worlds because G&G's skate at that competition was pure technical perfection, combined with joy, subtle emotion, and artistry. Landry and Johnston were the surprise silver medal winners in 89. Had S&M skated there, I think L&J would have won the bronze (and been thrilled about that too), and Bechke & Petrov would have just missed the podium.

Vash01
09-30-2012, 07:44 PM
This thread is making me wonder how many talented pairs from USSR may have never gotten a chance to even make it to worlds? From what I read, they were 10 deep at that time. Even Bechke & Petrov had to win a skate off to make the 89 worlds team, and they came away with a bronze.