PDA

View Full Version : How could the U.S. provide more international opportunities for deserving or develop?



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

crzesk8dad
09-17-2012, 10:39 PM
Article on USC Annenberg School for Communications Digital News site - "Neon Tommy"

Will The United States Ever Have A Breakout Senior Figure Skater?


http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/09/united-states-breakout-senior-figure-skater#.UFcLlh5QWqI.twitter

Interesting points are made.

(Full disclosure-one of the skaters mentioned has a close relationship to crzesk8dad, that's not why I posted, but I felt I should be honest with you readers)

orbitz
09-17-2012, 10:54 PM
I do agree that it would be nice for the lesser known skaters to get these B competitions, but the organizers need some "big ticket" names too to attract the public.

2sk8
09-17-2012, 11:01 PM
Not just interesting - spot on points. And, what about all those events on the ISU calendar the US sends no one too?

"There's definitely a challenging situation here: send someone who's a likely medal contender or send someone who could, with some experience, eventually become a medal contender. It's this critical developmental experience that skaters need and have a hard time getting. Theoretically, if skating were a consistent enough pursuit, there would be no reason not to invest in just a select group of skaters.

But skating is far from consistent. "

"DEVELOPMENTAL"

nylynnr
09-17-2012, 11:21 PM
Not sure I see the logic in what was written about the men's event. Of the four U.S. men assigned, three did not have any other international assignments. Aaron, who also competed in at least three summer events around the country, hit a quad Salchow and eight triples, including two triple Axels, in his FS. Mahbanoozadeh, fourth in the U.S. with no assignments, used the event to put mileage on his quad toe, which he landed in the short. Dolensky could be termed a (relative) "breakout" for the event; he hit his first-ever triple Axel there in the short. And while Miner has assignments, he needed to get his quad Salchow out there. Should, say, Aaron have stayed home, and, say, Sean Rabbitt and/or Scott Dyer been sent in his stead?

As for ladies Zawadzki had a challenging summer with a back injury and needed to get the cobwebs out. It's clear Gold is a potential star, and USFS wanted her to get her first individual international experience prior to her Grand Prix. Perhaps a third U.S. lady could have been added, but we don't know if others were asked, and declined.

bmcg
09-17-2012, 11:35 PM
Of course, it's still nice to see that some federations took risks. In ice dance, for instance, The Ukraine sent Siobhan Heekin-Canedy and Dimitry Dun, who managed to place fifth. Or how about Denmark's Karina Johnson? She placed sixth in the ladies' short program despite lacking the name brand of Gold or even Amelie Lacoste (who is currently in third, despite her disastrous 2011-2012 season).

Heekin-Canedy and Dun were 15th at last years world championships and the best in their country. Karina Johnson is the top Danish senior lady. Both these examples train year round in the US. I don't see that they took any risks at all, they sent their top seniors who were already living and training in the US.

demetriosj
09-18-2012, 01:24 AM
Perhaps a third U.S. lady could have been added, but we don't know if others were asked, and declined.

Yah, why wasn't a third lady added?

I would think many skaters would have been chomping at the bit to compete in a Senior B held in the US.

Ziggy
09-18-2012, 02:11 AM
I do agree that it would be nice for the lesser known skaters to get these B competitions, but the organizers need some "big ticket" names too to attract the public.

What do you mean?

kwanfan1818
09-18-2012, 07:19 AM
I do agree that it would be nice for the lesser known skaters to get these B competitions, but the organizers need some "big ticket" names too to attract the public.

For the people that went, were there many locals fans there? Skaters' families and local die-hard fans are going to be there not matter what. Based on reactions to the Senior Men, Pairs, and Dance, I'm guessing that non-local fans would have gone even if Zawadzki, Gold, Davis/Ladwig, and Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt (skaters with GPs) weren't there.

love_skate2011
09-18-2012, 08:07 AM
Gracie Gold :cool:

n*ice mom
09-18-2012, 06:57 PM
Senior level skaters (junior, too) need the opportunity to compete internationally. There are many competitions that are great for Novice and below, but the entries dwindle in Jr. and Senior. For men it is worse. Grant Hochstein ended up being the only Senior at Mid Atlantics to compete...the other two scratched. For the cost of a flight from CA and hotels in NYC, he could have put that money towards attending a Senior B at his own expense, but that is not allowed. You simply must be assigned by USFS and there is a very small list of competitions they are willing to do. (Just want to acknowledge that there are other reasons to attend a club comp such as supporting your club, getting feedback from judges, etc.)

These senior level skaters that are not Olympic contenders are of value to our sport. They all bring something to the ice that brings out the best in our Olympians. They are the training mates, the specialists in spins or artistry or jumps. And yes, their chances of breaking out would be improved greatly by the chance to see themselves as international competitors. Looking at the ladies entries for the International Classic, I see former US competitors Georgia Glastris and Stephanie Rigley who switched to representing other countries years ago, still in the sport at about age 20. I think it is clear that the opportunity to do meaningful competition keeps skaters skating. The expense of year round skating is too great just to have Regionals/Sectionals be your only meaningful outings. There are plenty of skaters who retire after the JGP, but I doubt that these are the skaters who will be the top contributors to USFS in the future in terms of coaching or judging.

I know of a Senior Level skater who was personally invited by the Turkish federation to compete at the Istanbul Cup (senior B) based on previous international results. USFS would not approve because it wasn't on their list of competitions, even if the skater paid their own way. After a strong regionals, this skater competed with an injury at Sectionals and that was the end to the season. Senior B's of the skaters choice would keep skaters like this training for competition through April and that would be great for them and the sport.

It is hard to be a Senior level skater. You are generally older...the injuries are more severe and you don't heal as quickly. Unless, you are training at a place like Colorado Springs, you are most likely lonely on the ice for contact with peers. Plus, when you do US competitions you will know more coaches and officials than you do competitors. The chance to compete in Senior Bs is the chance to connect with other skating peers from around the globe.

Ziggy
09-18-2012, 07:01 PM
^

I couldn't agree more.

USFS really isn't getting it... :wall:

(And same goes for Skate Canada)

peibeck
09-18-2012, 07:22 PM
I don't fault the USFS for sending Gold to this event, considering she has limited international experience. This was only her second senior event (counting that team competition in Japan). I think for both Gracie and Agnes, the USFS is trying to nurture some of their promising, but still somewhat emotionally fragile skaters by giving them a good opportunity to medal and gain valuable ISU points.

I think the men's choice were actually good opportunites for Armin, Max and Timothy. Plus the points they have gained may put them in contention for replacement slots if they become available later.

The most surprising pick in the line-up for me was Chock/Bates in dance. However, maybe that turned out to be a blessing-in-disguise considering how low their levels were in their free dance (granted one of their step sequences was probably downgraded with one of Evan's falls). :shuffle:

2sk8
09-18-2012, 08:16 PM
^

I couldn't agree more.

USFS really isn't getting it... :wall:

(And same goes for Skate Canada)


Ditto that...great post n*ice mom. I know of similar situations to the one you mention - there are opportunities for other skaters to compete internationally, but USFS doesn't allow it.

Another example - why doesn't USFS send Collegiate National medalists to international collegiate events like Winter Universiade? Does any one know? the skaters paid there own way in the past when collegiate medalists were sent to international events AKAIK. And, other countries take those events seriously - I believe Oda medaled at a previous Universiade - seems it would be both an opportunity, encouragement for skaters to continue when in college AND would likely increase the caliber of Collegiate skating.

The absence of those opportunities goes a long way toward explaining why US skaters who can switch countries do!

BreakfastClub
09-18-2012, 08:53 PM
Not sure I see the logic in what was written about the men's event. Of the four U.S. men assigned, three did not have any other international assignments. Aaron, who also competed in at least three summer events around the country, hit a quad Salchow and eight triples, including two triple Axels, in his FS. Mahbanoozadeh, fourth in the U.S. with no assignments, used the event to put mileage on his quad toe, which he landed in the short. Dolensky could be termed a (relative) "breakout" for the event; he hit his first-ever triple Axel there in the short. And while Miner has assignments, he needed to get his quad Salchow out there. Should, say, Aaron have stayed home, and, say, Sean Rabbitt and/or Scott Dyer been sent in his stead?

As for ladies Zawadzki had a challenging summer with a back injury and needed to get the cobwebs out. It's clear Gold is a potential star, and USFS wanted her to get her first individual international experience prior to her Grand Prix. Perhaps a third U.S. lady could have been added, but we don't know if others were asked, and declined.

This ^^

Agree with the other posters here, I see nothing controversial about the USFS selection of skaters to the Salt Lake event - it represented a pivotal and unique development opportunity for each. In fact for the most part, I think the USFS did a good job making sure all skaters who had a strong 2012 Nationals finish got on the GP, JGP or a B event. If you want to get on the list, go knock it out of the park in Omaha.

You want to talk about controversy? Let's talk about how the USFS blatantly favored Ricky after a crap Nationals and totally hosed a bunch of men, especially Armin. ;)

Re: talk about paying your own way to an international competition... shouldn't these opportunities should be based on merit not personal financial situation? There are already too many financial pressures on most skaters just to make ends meet in a very expensive sport. Now add the expense of sending yourself to an international too to get an edge over your competitors? That would put the ones from wealthy families or lucky to have benefactors at a really unfair advantage. Just IMO, and would be curious to hear the counterarguments on this.

n*ice mom
09-18-2012, 09:31 PM
Re: talk about paying your own way to an international competition... shouldn't these opportunities should be based on merit not personal financial situation? There are already too many financial pressures on most skaters just to make ends meet in a very expensive sport. Now add the expense of sending yourself to an international too to get an edge over your competitors? That would put the ones from wealthy families or lucky to have benefactors at a really unfair advantage. Just IMO, and would be curious to hear the counterarguments on this.

I knew this would come up. By the time your skater has surpassed Intermediate you are broke anyway. How do regular folks pay for $30-60K of training? You do it through 2nd mortgages, liquidating assets and 401Ks, because you think it will not be forever. If you have a skater who has miraculously endured till they are senior than the amount of expense for an international competition pales in comparison to what you've put in. Plus regular competitions in the US often cost $1-2K if you have to pay for yourself and your coach or coaches (4 nights in hotel/entry fees/practice ice...even more if flights and rental car). There isn't that much of a thrill to do your 11th Liberty competition against the same pool of skaters. Instead that money would be better spent on an international.

And the skaters I am talking about have merit. They certainly wouldn't be coming in last. For example, I wish Yasmin Siraj could go to a Senior B. She is going to train all year for Sectionals and Nationals just to qualify for a JGP the fall of 2013, when in previous years she qualified for the JGP, even the JGP final. Can you imagine what that does to your head when you are a teenager when you feel like you are going backwards? This is a skater who USFS has already made an investment in, so what would be the harm in letting her self-fund a trip to an international competition that would give her something to work towards and let her feel like she was moving forward. I have no personal knowledge of Yasmin's interest in doing this...she is just my example.

Nor would skaters have to be representing the USA...could just represent their club. I wish there was an option to be an individual member of ISU.