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Sylvia
03-16-2013, 05:47 PM
I agree Sylvia, but part of the problem is that since the US doesn't have a star, the young inexperienced skaters get shoved into the Worlds spotlight, ready or not.
Such as?

Placement at their first Worlds (among the men who competed at 2013 Nationals):
Aaron 7th in 2013
Dornbush 9th in 2011
Miner 11th in 2011
Rippon 6th in 2010
Mroz 9th in 2009
Carriere 10th in 2008
Abbott 11th in 2008

ETA: I would say all the rookies had solid debuts except for Abbott, placement-wise, who went as an alternate and the 3rd man (he landed 4T+2T in SP and 4T in FS but had problems with his three 3A attempts).

pinky166
03-16-2013, 05:53 PM
I think Ross is a good type of skater for the 3rd mens spot on World Teams if we had it, and Max is a good pick for the 2nd spot. Problem is, we need a solid 1st team member pick which we don't have right now, someone who should be good to place in the top 5 and can challenge for a medal/win on a good day (If Abbott could deliver consistently, he could be that, and Lysacek used to be that, but given their respective ages and the scoring of Babou and technical unraveling of Dai witnessed last night, I'm not too hopeful about Abbott or Lysacek becoming a strong 1st World/Olympic Team member pick before their respective retirements, which will probably occur pretty soon, at this point). So I guess it's just a game of wait and see now. I think Josh Farris shows promise and was arguably the most consistent US man this season, and I think he could have made his mark at these Worlds, but realistically, skating his best would be about 9th or 10th place, so definitely not good enough for 3 spots, and look what good that did Richard Dornbush back in 2011 :( ...none whatsoever despite his skating and scoring remarkably well for a teenage newbie at his first Worlds. So in the end, we're just in transition right now.

C'est a la via. Will say though that I'm mighty impressed Nathan Chen is still in the top 24 SB list :D. The future could be arriving sooner than we think, I mean, look at the amazing ascent of Denis Ten! Or even Fernandez who was nothing too too special just two seasons ago.

Cheylana
03-16-2013, 06:19 PM
We got spoiled with Lysacek. During the time frame from the 2006 Olympics to the 2010 Olympics, he earned a medal at every international event except the 2006 Olympics (4th) and the 2007 World Championship (5th). Some may argue that Lysacek was just lucky. However, he consistently delivered when it counted at the major international competitions.
We were spoiled by Weir too. Not a lot of World/Olympic podium placements, but he never finished lower than 8th at those events, and helped us get 3 spots quite a few times.

ilovepaydays
03-16-2013, 06:43 PM
Well, I think we can all agree that the GP this fall will definitely be :watch: for the U.S. men. If I was going to make prediction on who makes the team based on what I see right now, it would be Aaron & Farris/Dornbush. Maybe Brown is in the mix. As much as I like Jeremy's skating, I think that he isn't going to be given the benefit of doubt if he makes mistakes at Nationals.

centerpt1
03-16-2013, 07:24 PM
If Lysacek shows up at Nationals, he's going to get an Olympic slot-no matter how he really skates.

So there's one Olympic slot for the rest......I bet it's Aaron.

merrywidow
03-16-2013, 07:49 PM
I think we'll see Max repeat as National Champion in 2014. I expect him to incorporate his quad salchow into next year's program. The rest of the Americans will be playing catch-up. Abbott can't deal with pressure & as much as I like him, Rippon is questionable. Dornbush is tough & determined & Miner needs to work more on a consistent quad. As for Farris & Brown if they develop consistent quads (at least 1 in the long) they'll have a shot at making the Olympic team. I haven't totally given up on Carriere & will be watching the summer & fall competitions just as I did last year for him & Max to see if he is progressing or regressing. I'll reserve judgment on Evan until I see him again in competition.
I was thrilled with Max & his 7th place result. I'm still laughing at his hitting the boards & instead of falling he dug his left skate into the ice & pushed off. Didn't seem to faze him. Remarkable!

pinky166
03-16-2013, 07:51 PM
If Lysacek shows up at Nationals, he's going to get an Olympic slot-no matter how he really skates.

So there's one Olympic slot for the rest......I bet it's Aaron.

I don't think so, not without a quad and not without skating really, really well. Think back to Sasha Cohen in 2010..Firstly, I don't think Evan will be coming back, and secondly, if he does, I don't think he's a lock for the team, though he could make it. He never really had a quad to speak of in his prime and his 3a is not of very good quality either. Plus it seems the past generation is getting a little bit dumped...Joubert, with quads, down in 9th, Takahashi down in 6th after missing jumps but more importantly with PCS below not only a Chan meltdown but also Ten and a good-but-not-great Fernandez. Make of that what you will.

If we see the men ease up on the quads internationally next season, then Abbott and Brown probably have decent odds to make the team, they'd probably just need to be trying one in the FS and might even be able to afford a fall if it's rotated (Jason) and maybe even if it's not (Jeremy).

If quad is still a really big factor, the team will probably be Aaron and either Dornbush or Farris. Dornbush needs to stop popping his 3a so much and work on avoiding silly mistakes in the SP, Farris has a great 3a and 3a-3t and seems to be getting closer on his quad attempts, if he can start landing them more often than not come next season and keep up the consistency on his other jumps, he may be the smartest pick. Right now the quad is usually a splat, albeit rotated, but he probably has the best 3a in the field right now and seems to be able to pull out the rest of his jumps well most of the time even when he does crash on the 4t. If I were him, I'd leave it out of the SP next season, he's always been a strong SP skater and his ability to get level 4s on all his spins and footwork combined with the quality of his 3a make it less crucial for him in the SP. Plus in seniors he could do a 3lo as his solo jump if he's worried about getting called for lipping, his 3lo is one of his best jumps anyway. Then in the FS a layout where he could try for two 4t, if he lands the first, and just one if he falls on the first, might be smart, or if the 4t is more miss than hit still, he could try for 3a-3t or even both 3a in the bonus. Dornbush I assume will keep trying the 4t in the SP along with his optional two or one (but usually two) 4ts in the FS. If he can hit the quads most of the time and keep the other mistakes to a minimum, he's probably the strongest pick for the 2nd spot, and maybe could even overtake Aaron for the 1st.

Miner, Rippon, Johnson, and Mahbanoozadeh could find themselves in the mix but I don't think they'll be receiving any reputation bonuses at Nationals next year and I don't think they are going to be who the USFS is focused on leading up to Nationals/the Olympics. And then obviously, they will need to have the 3a secured and be at least going for the 4t, likely with some success and full-rotation credit, to be in the shakeup.

I do think that, now that the results of the season are in, that things have shifted from Abbott and Miner seeming like the likely Olympic team to Aaron and Dornbush/Farris (probably mostly Dornbush as USFS likely wants to push for Farris to really peak for 2018 and may be prone to hold him back a bit for now, although he did win pewter at Nats with scores right up with the top 3, and is JWC. So we shall see.) And I do think a team of two of those three guys would have decent odds at getting back a 3rd spot, maybe not next season and it could even take a few years, but after all the post-Sochi retirements, a dynamic, consistent jumper like Max along with well-rounded skaters who are balanced technically and performance wise/artistically like Richard and Joshua should be the type of skaters who could be placing in the top 5-7 at Worlds and challenging for medals on a good day (barring onset of headcase-ness, injury, illness, quitting, even higher technical expectations, etc.) And there is a lot of talent coming up through the ranks too in Omori, Chen, Ma, and Zhou. Plus Jason Brown seems a lot steadier with the 3a now and has already come into his own artistically at 18.

olympic
03-16-2013, 10:50 PM
Such as?

Placement at their first Worlds (among the men who competed at 2013 Nationals):
Aaron 7th in 2013
Dornbush 9th in 2011
Miner 11th in 2011
Rippon 6th in 2010
Mroz 9th in 2009
Carriere 10th in 2008
Abbott 11th in 2008

ETA: I would say all the rookies had solid debuts except for Abbott, placement-wise, who went as an alternate and the 3rd man (he landed 4T+2T in SP and 4T in FS but had problems with his three 3A attempts).

Solid debuts. Definitely. But recently it has been the rookies leading the charge (Dornbush and Miner - '11) (Aaron - '13) and thus they are the ones with a heavy burden to deliver subsequent great performances.

Sylvia
03-19-2013, 10:57 PM
USFS posted their Gardena Spring Trophy (April 1-3) entries on their site today: http://www.usfigureskating.org/Athletes.asp?id=216
5 men are going to Italy:
Senior - Adam Rippon, Brandon Mroz
Junior - Jimmy Ma (J4), Jordan Moeller (J5)
Novice - Vincent Zhou (J1)
It will be the international debut for Ma, Moeller, and Zhou.

olympic
03-19-2013, 10:59 PM
^I love the fact that the US is sending notable skaters to these competitions (don't they normally skip them?). I hope they do well.

Sylvia
03-19-2013, 11:08 PM
USFS posted their Gardena Spring Trophy (April 1-3) entries on their site today: http://www.usfigureskating.org/Athletes.asp?id=216
5 men are going to Italy:
Senior - Adam Rippon, Brandon Mroz
Junior - Jimmy Ma (J4), Jordan Moeller (J5)
Novice - Vincent Zhou (J1)
It will be the international debut for Ma, Moeller, and Zhou.

^I love the fact that the US is sending notable skaters to these competitions (don't they normally skip them?). I hope they do well.
Gardena looks like a "makeup" competition for Rippon and Mroz, both of whom had to withdraw from their last competition due to injury. Rippon lost the chance to improve his Season Best total score and gain ISU World Standings ranking points at Four Continents (Dornbush, his replacement at 4CC, subsequently passed him on both lists), while Mroz was originally scheduled to go to Challenge Cup with Alex Johnson. Glad to see USFS being so proactive! :D

misskarne
03-19-2013, 11:42 PM
If Rippon is going to this one, I would assume he's not going to WTT?

When do they have to announce the WTT entries?

Sylvia
03-19-2013, 11:48 PM
When do they have to announce the WTT entries?
I don't know when USFS will announce their team but entries are due on March 25.

ETA to add on March 20 that Max Aaron and Jeremy Abbott have been named to World Team Trophy -- see: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?87037-2013-ISU-World-Team-Trophy-April-11-14-in-Tokyo&p=3881006&viewfull=1#post3881006

Sylvia
04-03-2013, 11:41 PM
2013 Gardena Spring Trophy Senior Men's final top 4:
1 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN 228.63 1 2
2 Adam RIPPON USA 219.16 3 1 (he received 225 ISU WS ranking points)
3 Stèphane WALKER SUI 193.71 4 3
4 Brandon MROZ USA 190.26 2 5 (he received 182 WS points)

ETA Gardena podium pic via Twitter:
Senior Men (http://imgur.com/q7XWldb) (L to R: Rippon, Kozuka, Stephane Walker SUI)

FS top 5:
1 Adam RIPPON USA 155.52 74.18 81.34 8.08 7.92 8.25 8.17 8.25 0.00 #10
2 Takahiko KOZUKA JPN 147.45 70.45 79.00 8.00 7.67 7.83 8.17 7.83 2.00 #9
3 Stèphane WALKER SUI 130.96 62.96 68.00 7.00 6.50 7.08 6.75 6.67 0.00 #11
4 Abzal RAKIMGALIYEV KAZ 125.74 57.56 68.18 6.75 6.42 6.92 7.08 6.92 0.00 #13
5 Brandon MROZ USA 121.42 51.42 71.00 7.08 6.92 7.08 7.25 7.17 1.00 #12
Protocols: http://application.fisg.it/results/3081/23Gard_SeniorMen_FS_Scores.pdf

Rippon wrote a short blog for his site (http://www.figureskatersonline.com/adamrippon/blog-20130330.html) before he left for Italy and mentioned that he had started jumping again 2 weeks ago after recovering from the ankle injury that forced his WD from Four Continents. He debuted a new long program today to Debussy's Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun, choreographed by Tom Dickson. 2 photos from today's FS:
Beginning(?) pose: http://imgur.com/fY0OIip
End pose: http://imgur.com/yYx85PP

2013 Gardena Spring Trophy Junior Men's podium photo (http://pic.twitter.com/o5pTDVGT5l) (L to R: Shu Nakamura, Jordan Moeller, Jimmy Ma)
1 Jordan MOELLER USA 195.67 1 1
2 Shu NAKAMURA JPN 163.82 5 2
3 Jimmy MA USA 153.98 2 3
FS:
1 Jordan MOELLER USA 132.05 66.73 65.32 6.58 6.25 6.75 6.58 6.50 0.00 #6
2 Shu NAKAMURA JPN 116.46 60.96 55.50 5.83 5.17 5.58 6.00 5.17 0.00 #5
3 Jimmy MA USA 98.90 44.90 55.00 5.83 5.08 5.75 5.67 5.17 1.00 #9
Moeller landed 7 triples: 3F, 2A, 3Lz+3T, 3Lo, 3Lz, 3F+2T+1Lo, 3S, 2A+2T.

Vincent Zhou won the Novice Boy's gold medal with an impressive total score (153.55) and 7 triple FS (3S, Rippon 3Lz, 2A, 3Lo, 3F, 3F+2T, Rippon 3Lz+3T):
1 Vincent ZHOU USA 105.09 58.26 46.83 6.67 6.25 6.67 6.42 0.00 #7

pinky166
04-04-2013, 12:17 AM
Nice PCS for Adam...higher than Kozuka :eek:, the new program must be pretty great! Did he try a quad of any kind here?
Zhou continues to be great, too bad he's still too young for JGP next season.
Moeller much better than at Nationals but he won't go anywhere without a 3a, likely not even on the JGP, so hope that jump will be ready soon!