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jlai
03-16-2013, 04:31 AM
Me too. :( Now he's going to be the goat and blamed for US men not getting the third spot back. But we were highly unlikely to get it back no matter which two we sent.



I doubt he'd get blamed for it, considering the better placement is only 7th.

I hope Max isn't gonna become another one of those one podium finish wonder at nationals. I like Max (and Dornbush and to a lesser extent, Rippon). On one hand, it's great so many guys get a chance at top 3 and go to worlds or 4cc; OTOH, to develop talent you can't keep sending diff skaters year after year

Jammers
03-16-2013, 06:18 AM
We need a strong contender who can finish inn the top 4 consistently internationally and we don't have that now. Max did his job finishing 7th. But i'm not sure he's the one to be that man. Maybe it will take the younger guys like Josh or Jason or even Dornbush. I don't see it being Minor and Abbott is about done his body can't hold up much longer.

aftershocks
03-16-2013, 06:40 AM
Ross shouldn't be blamed for anything. It was not his nor Max's job to bring back 3 spots. Adam and Jeremy couldn't when they had every opportunity to do so.

Also, Jammers, I'm not entirely sure that Max is gonna be taken out of the running for anything, especially if a false music start at Nats and crashing against the boards at Worlds didn't deter him. He brushed off both incidents like pesky flies and seemingly just forgot about what happened and kept focused on the business at hand. I was never a huge fan of Max, but now "I'm a believer!" :D IMO, Max will continue to be strong next season, and if he is, he should be sent to Worlds so that he can build momentum.

More than likely if Richard stays strong next season, or anyone else among top level contenders rises significantly above the pack, they will be given a chance along with Max. It's too sad to think that Jeremy going to Worlds in 2011 might have saved the third spot in the first place and then with an extra guy on the team in 2012, it might have taken some pressure off of Adam and Jeremy. Who knows, but maybe had Jeremy gone to Worlds these last 3 years, he'd be stronger mentally. Not going to Worlds this year and seeing the results is probably more deflating for Jeremy than for anyone else. But again, it's not Max's nor Ross' fault or responsibility.

casken
03-16-2013, 07:45 AM
OMG, my heart goes out to Ross. Obviously, his quad was not secure and his nerves were uncharacteristically rattled. The severe low-balling by the judges in the sp was disastrous (I think Ross should have been no lower than 10 or 11 in sp). Why was Ross behind Peter Liebers in sp when PL didn't even attempt a quad and to boot doesn't have as good skating skills as Ross???

Is it opposite day and nobody told me? :lol::lol::lol:

centerpt1
03-16-2013, 09:40 AM
Max did very well for himself. It's only up from here, right? I wish he would find a different coach, though.

I thought Ross would be top 10. Surprised. It has to be tough to go through that.

Selecting a World team in January is always a crap shoot. How can you tell who will be skating well in March?

Jeremy might have been recovered and back on his quad in the short by March. Or not. We'll never know.

aftershocks
03-16-2013, 10:08 AM
^^ Well I think the changes in the sport have outgrown the way its presently structured in terms of country-based, political-based World team selections, rather than allowing all skaters to rise on the basis of their talent regardless of country affiliation.

It does seem that USFS constantly sending different men skaters every year to Worlds is not gonna help any of them build confidence and momentum.

olympic
03-16-2013, 01:11 PM
Max has 2 GPs for sure for next season which is great, Ross does not. I just hope the USFS is smart and 1.) does not hold back Jason Brown on the JGP again to help get Miner a second GP and Rippon a 1st or 2nd and 2.) politiks for Farris to get 2 GPs before Miner and Rippon because he's been more consistent this season honestly and crushed Rippon's SB and Miner's last two international scores considerably with the numbers put up by his JW win. Just take a chance and go with the young guys who deliver for once - certainly panned out for Max Aaron.

I agree the damage isn't permanent or too severe for Ross, he's still just 22 and he can do well when he delivers - it likely just means he won't be getting PCS favors at Nationals next year which quite frankly is a good thing. I think he had the SOHL in the FS at NHK and the USFS got excited about that - it's understandable, but one good program at one good competition does not a skater make, they need to be better about looking at the whole picture and how these guys are scored and viewed internationally - both when they deliver and when they don't. Placing in the top 6 was going to be a big ask for any of the guys and only a clean Jeremy could have likely managed it. Farris or Dornbush would have likely done better but it wouldn't been enough for 3 spots and Ross not doing so well here combined with their good showings at JW and 4CC are likely to play in their favor anyways in terms of GP selection and heading into Nationals and the Olympics next year. On another note quad mayhem may be on it's way out so perhaps the US can have a "star" emerge in the coming years that won't need to be able to rattle off 4 quads per competition to be in the mix. It will be interesting to see, that's for sure. Oh, and I hope people give Max a break regarding his artistry, his component marks are very respectable and I'm sure he'll continue to work on improving that side of his skating, but for the meantime, it's just fine.

Well said, Pinky


Max did very well for himself. It's only up from here, right? I wish he would find a different coach, though.

I thought Ross would be top 10. Surprised. It has to be tough to go through that.

Selecting a World team in January is always a crap shoot. How can you tell who will be skating well in March?

Jeremy might have been recovered and back on his quad in the short by March. Or not. We'll never know.

Bold mine.

This is why the USFSA really needs to come up with a different system for selecting the team for all 4 disciplines. The winner take all mentality is less effective with CoP than it was under 6.0. I say use Nationals of course, but maybe the USFSA can establish a formula that figures a skaters' results from the previous Fall's international competitions and factor that all into a 'grand score' after Nationals. Then if there are 2 skaters extremely close for the 2nd (or 3rd) spot, send those skaters to 4CC's for a skate-off. I think a selection process that spans over a period of time captures those skaters that are much more consistent.

And also beef up the USFSA injury monitoring process.

misskarne
03-16-2013, 01:46 PM
Last few posts summed up:

"My favourite was too much of a headcase (again) to make the Worlds team! NEW SELECTION SYSTEM NOW!"

Cheylana
03-16-2013, 01:52 PM
I think it's always going to be a crapshoot. Russia didn't go by its Nationals results either, and that blew up in their face, too.


It's too sad to think that Jeremy going to Worlds in 2011 might have saved the third spot in the first place and then with an extra guy on the team in 2012, it might have taken some pressure off of Adam and Jeremy. Who knows, but maybe had Jeremy gone to Worlds these last 3 years, he'd be stronger mentally. Not going to Worlds this year and seeing the results is probably more deflating for Jeremy than for anyone else. But again, it's not Max's nor Ross' fault or responsibility.
I'm still scratching my head at why people think Jeremy going to 2011 Worlds would have saved that third spot.

If I remember correctly, Ricky was 9th, Ross 11th and Bradley buried even further down. Jeremy would have needed 3rd or better to save the third spot (because Ricky would have been bumped to 10th place... 10+3=13). The odds of Jeremy attaining 3rd were as long as any other scenario out there. First of all, his track record at the marquis events is not great. Moreover, at that event Chan and Kozuka skated lights out and were not going to be beaten. Hometown boy Gachinski also skated quite well with a quad and was not going to be passed in Moscow.

Basically we were pretty much screwed, no matter what. :P

pinky166
03-16-2013, 02:34 PM
I think the standard is just really high right now, and there's too much BS reputation scoring going on for certain skaters so for someone like Ross, sending them to Worlds and expecting him to help bring back 3 spots is a tall order. Max skated about as well as he could and was 7th. Ross would have needed to have been 6th to get the 3rd spot back, and only then just barely. Even if he skated 2 clean programs that might not have happened because Takahashi's total score was 5 points higher than what Ross scored at NHK with his perfect FS. Plus with the way the judging was last night it's too hard to predict how a clean Ross would have been marked anyways. He should have just been focusing on skating the best he could do, not worrying about 3 spots knowing the field is stacked and the judging system is questionable and yada yada.

I still think the judging was questionable at Nats and Ross benefitted from it but after what happened at 4CCs you could see Ross was rattled which speaks to having a 2 competition selection process like other Nations do, see who can handle the pressure better and skate overall better at 2 competitions (Nats and 4CC). So yes, Dornbush and Farris did a lot better at 4CC and JW than Ross did at Worlds - but they also didn't have a lot of pressure, so maybe getting sent to 4CCs and being told it's a skate-off, the result would be different. When all is said and done I think basing team selections on the results of one competition under COP isn't a great idea. Any way you slice it, it's a crapshoot, but having a skate-off at an ISU event does help matters by putting skaters under pressure again and seeing how an international panel responds to their efforts. Then you take that and Nationals and make the best decision.

olympic
03-16-2013, 02:49 PM
Last few posts summed up:

"My favourite was too much of a headcase (again) to make the Worlds team! NEW SELECTION SYSTEM NOW!"

FTR, not my post. I tend to gravitate towards Ricky, but I don't have a favorite.

Jammers
03-16-2013, 04:26 PM
What the US lacks right now is a skater who can consistently get into the top 4 internationally. Skaters like Aaron, Dornbush and Minor are good enough to get into the top 8 but we need a real star who's a threat to get on the podium at least and who won't bomb or have a meltdown.

Sylvia
03-16-2013, 04:38 PM
Ross' last name is spelled Miner.

"Rome wasn't built in a day." There are good young prospects in the pipeline, as we all know. Let them develop at their own natural pace and let's not shove them into the Worlds spotlight until they have the tools -- both physical and mental -- to deal with the pressure. Kudos to Max Aaron for successfully dealing with the pressure this week in his Worlds debut in London!

SkateFan66
03-16-2013, 04:43 PM
What the US lacks right now is a skater who can consistently get into the top 4 internationally. Skaters like Aaron, Dornbush and Minor are good enough to get into the top 8 but we need a real star who's a threat to get on the podium at least and who won't bomb or have a meltdown.

We got spoiled with Lysacek. During the time frame from the 2006 Olympics to the 2010 Olympics, he earned a medal at every international event except the 2006 Olympics (4th) and the 2007 World Championship (5th). Some may argue that Lysacek was just lucky. However, he consistently delivered when it counted at the major international competitions.

Give the other skaters time to develop. Lysacek was not always a consistent competitor. That developed over time.

olympic
03-16-2013, 05:14 PM
Ross' last name is spelled Miner.

"Rome wasn't built in a day." There are good young prospects in the pipeline, as we all know. Let them develop at their own natural pace and let's not shove them into the Worlds spotlight until they have the tools -- both physical and mental -- to deal with the pressure. Kudos to Max Aaron for successfully dealing with the pressure this week in his Worlds debut in London!

I agree Sylvia, but part of the problem is that since the US doesn't have a star, the young inexperienced skaters get shoved into the Worlds spotlight, ready or not.