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gkelly
02-03-2013, 03:22 AM
I've always wished there was a skating equivalent of ballet barre, where each skill is warmed up before going on to do control moves, combinations and jumping, each progressing to the next. Imagine if after off-ice stretching and warm-up, every skater had to start with basic stroking, then edge work, then holding edges, then FW passages of different character, then spins -- Button said Lussi taught jumps as spins in the air -- then jumps, then programs. This is financially unviable, unless skaters are taught in groups, but I think the skaters would be more accomplished all around and the programs more watchable.

In the old days, skaters would usually do a patch session before each freestyle session, so that got the muscles warmed up and the alignment centered over the blades.

But they didn't do as much off-ice warmup or off-ice training in those days.

Now it would be up to coaches to train their skaters to warm up appropriately before starting to work on the more challenging or riskier skills. I'm sure some coaches make more of a point of it than others. And because much practice is not directly supervised, there's no guarantee that kids will do what they're supposed to instead of what they're interested in. Those who are serious about their training and have coaches who are serious about instilling smart training habits are more likely to reach the higher levels and the harder jumps, but there will still be some who skimp on warmups.

A.H.Black
02-03-2013, 04:07 AM
There was a longer piece on Lussi's teaching that I once downloaded from FS Vids, also moderated by Button (or with lots of comments by him), but I don't see it on YouTube. He and interviewees discussed his teaching philosophy, and IIRC, there was at least one scene in it in which he sat in chair, maybe in the rink opening, and coached a skater or two in spins. I seem to remember Paul Wylie -- who did train with John Curry for at least a short while, maybe during a summer? -- but I don't remember if he was interviewed or was also one of the skaters being coached.

I have a special about Lussi - I think it's the one you remember - http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/464975/Gustave-Lussi-The-Man-Who-Changed-Skating/ I recorded it from PBS. The skater in the small rink was Tracy Damigella. Button appears in it but does not narrate. Very informative and interesting.

I remember Paul being quoted extensively after Lussi's death but he wasn't in this special. I don't know if Paul was ever coached directly by Lussi, however, his coach Mary Scotvold was coached by Lussi. Lussi's influence is in about the third generation at this point.

Sylvia
02-04-2013, 02:04 AM
Tatjana Flade just tweeted: "Adam Rippon (USA) withdrawn from 4Conts due to injury. :-( Replacement Richard Dornbush."

PinkFeathers
02-04-2013, 02:48 AM
Ricky just tweeted "Would watch the #SuperBowl right now, buuuuut I'm last minute packing for #4CC right now. Osaka here I come!" So, yep :( Poor Adam, but yay, Ricky!

aftershocks
02-04-2013, 03:20 AM
^^ Oh no, Adam. :( I was really looking forward to seeing Adam perform his programs this season for a final time. He seemed to be enjoying them so much at Nationals! What kind of injury has Adam sustained? Does anybody have more details? Hope he heals fully and is back training soon.

Nice for Ricky to have a chance to compete. I hope he's feeling stronger and can have a good competition to end his season on a high note.

pinky166
02-04-2013, 04:05 AM
Does this mean Dornbush will be the first alternate for Worlds? I had heard that Jeremy turned down being an alternate to let his back heal then focus on training his quad, and if Rippon is injured, does that mean Dornbush is next in line or Farris? I thought the point of putting Rippon ahead on the Worlds alt list was due to Farris' assignment to JW close to Worlds, so I wonder if this means the order changes now that Rippon is injured. Anyways, good luck to Ricky! Nice chance for him to improve his SB. Too bad for Rippon though, hope he has a speedy recovery! I do wonder though what this means in terms of GP assignments for next season though, there's a chance Rippon's current SB will fall out of the top 25 by the end of the season, in which case he'd still get a GP guarantee from his top 25 WS, but it might be tough to get a 2nd unless it's in the form of a SA host pick. I guess if he were to get assigned to WTT assuming he's healed by then, that would give him another chance to get a new SB.

Sylvia
02-04-2013, 05:44 AM
Does this mean Dornbush will be the first alternate for Worlds? I had heard that Jeremy turned down being an alternate to let his back heal then focus on training his quad,
Original list of men's alternates for 2013 Worlds:

Alternate 1 - Jeremy Abbott
Alternate 2 - Adam Rippon
Alternate 3 - Joshua Farris

Abbott reportedly declined 4CC and is still 1st alternate to Worlds, AFAIK. I believe any changes to the alternate list would have to be voted on by USFS' International Committee.

LilJen
02-04-2013, 10:06 AM
Tatjana Flade just tweeted: "Adam Rippon (USA) withdrawn from 4Conts due to injury. :-( Replacement Richard Dornbush."

:wuzrobbed of seeing his fun Incredibles program. Hope it's nothing major.

kwanette
02-04-2013, 10:38 AM
:wuzrobbed of seeing his fun Incredibles program. Hope it's nothing major.

Sending good thoughts to Adam.

Frau Muller
02-04-2013, 11:40 AM
Tatjana Flade just tweeted: "Adam Rippon (USA) withdrawn from 4Conts due to injury. :-( Replacement Richard Dornbush."

Nooooo!!!!!!

I'd love for Adam to (a) get well soon and (b) keep his current Incredibles LP into the Olympic season. He can ride that one all the way to Sochi, IMO.

Sylvia
02-04-2013, 03:41 PM
Alexander Johnson (7th at Nationals) and Brandon Mroz (9th) are on the entry list for the Challenge Cup in The Hague, Netherlands (Feb. 21-24) - see event thread started in the Kiss and Cry forum. This was be Johnson's first senior international since 2009 Finlandia Trophy!

Sylvia
02-04-2013, 03:53 PM
Dornbush replaces Rippon at Four Continents - press release: http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=48962&type=media
"Rippon, who placed fifth at the 2013 U.S. Championships, sustained an ankle injury on Saturday. He is expected to make a full recovery."

crzesk8dad
02-04-2013, 04:16 PM
Does this mean Dornbush will be the first alternate for Worlds? I had heard that Jeremy turned down being an alternate to let his back heal then focus on training his quad, and if Rippon is injured, does that mean Dornbush is next in line or Farris? I thought the point of putting Rippon ahead on the Worlds alt list was due to Farris' assignment to JW close to Worlds, so I wonder if this means the order changes now that Rippon is injured. Anyways, good luck to Ricky! Nice chance for him to improve his SB. Too bad for Rippon though, hope he has a speedy recovery! I do wonder though what this means in terms of GP assignments for next season though, there's a chance Rippon's current SB will fall out of the top 25 by the end of the season, in which case he'd still get a GP guarantee from his top 25 WS, but it might be tough to get a 2nd unless it's in the form of a SA host pick. I guess if he were to get assigned to WTT assuming he's healed by then, that would give him another chance to get a new SB.

Pinky, one competition at a time!

Sasha'sSpins
02-04-2013, 04:29 PM
USFS now makes changes to the rules continuously, I've talked to my ice dance coach about this as he's a national competitor. The changes can come out of the blue and you may not have the time to make the change before competition. Trust me, skaters and coaches do the best to keep up, but it isn't easy these days.

Wow. I did not know this. I thought it was similar to gymnastics in that once requirements are set they are set for the next four years. That's hardly fair to the athletes who have to invest money in coaches and choreographers to keep changing things up. :/


Lol, yep, and now we Americans have OUR own "Quad King" in Max Aaron. :hat1:

Btw, I've watched his FS again over on youtube (IN won't have it up until Tuesday ON DEMAND) and was blown way once again, and noticed things I mght've missed the first time, like that FAB 3T-1/2R-3S sequence, as well as ending with the 3R jump! :cool: But more than anything else I noticed how much Max reminds me of another long-time favorite of mine, Elvis Stojko, they're built similar and are T O U G H. 'nuff said :cool:

What a joy it's going to be to watch Max over the years, my gosh he's only 20 yrs. old, just imagine what's ahead, WOW, and he's American, a big plus, we *finally* have our own "Quad King"...

I too am very excited indeed at Max's prospects! Some here seem to be saying he's an artistic disaster-but he's not THAT bad. There's room to grow. I'll be rooting for him all the way! If he does great at 4CCs it will help him to establish some rep and hopefully he'll keep it going at Worlds! :)


Timothy Goebel discussed this in his Skate Lesson Podcast interview. He spoke about doing virtually no warm-up and starting to jump and jump and jump off the bat. It was the macho thing to do, just like tennis players talked about similar things back in the day. Mets outfielder Mookie Wilson blew out his shoulder when his then-manager insisted he throw at full strength at the beginning of spring training one season.

Like anything else, if athletes are trained from the beginning to warm up properly, do off-ice training, and to build into their jump practices, it's a habit that many or most will continue. The fluff piece on Chan's off-ice training regimen last season couldn't hurt, as athletes try to replicate successful methods and emulate systematic, professional training methods.

Ot but what became of the manager? Hope they fired his a$$! :mad:


Tatjana Flade just tweeted: "Adam Rippon (USA) withdrawn from 4Conts due to injury. :-( Replacement Richard Dornbush."

I read about it in another thread. I'm SO bummed! :( Sending healing vibes to ((Adam)).

gkelly
02-04-2013, 05:00 PM
USFS now makes changes to the rules continuously, I've talked to my ice dance coach about this as he's a national competitor. The changes can come out of the blue and you may not have the time to make the change before competition. Trust me, skaters and coaches do the best to keep up, but it isn't easy these days.


Wow. I did not know this. I thought it was similar to gymnastics in that once requirements are set they are set for the next four years. That's hardly fair to the athletes who have to invest money in coaches and choreographers to keep changing things up. :/

As I understand, USFS makes actual rule changes once a year (at the Governing Council in May, but they may take effect immediately, July 1, or Sept. 1).

Any rules that affect junior and senior program content would be based on what the ISU does. ISU changes usually come out later in the spring, especially in even years when major changes get proposed and sometimes adopted at the ISU Congress. So the US may have to change rules after Governing Council to reflect the ISU rule changes.

Both the ISU and the USFS issue clarifications throughout the year (although mainly in the summer) when ambiguous points are identified and resolved. These mostly affect technical panel calls. So there could be an official change midyear in the way that technical panels interpret specific features, specific errors, etc. That's probably what's under discussion here.