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kwanfan1818
01-30-2013, 06:12 PM
After breaking your back there is not much upper flexibility.



Urmanov didn't have a lot of flexibility in his upper body, but he had gorgeous posture.

Vagabond
01-30-2013, 06:16 PM
Max Aaron's basics are fine. His artistry needs work, I'll give you that, but he in no way has bad basics nor is his skating inferior in any aspects..

His basic skating is clearly inferior to that of Miner, Abbott, and Farris, not to mention several who finished off the podium (Johnson and Brown, for example). His choreography and transitions, such as they were, started about 48 seconds into the Free Skate when he went from his quadruple salchow into his first spin. The marks for each of his Program Components went up by more than a point between his (clean) Short Program and his (clean) Free Skate for no apparent reason other than factors that are not supposed to be considered in the marks.

If the judges had given Aaron PCS in the Free Skate commensurate with what they gave him in the Short Program, he would not have won and might not even have made the Worlds team.

starbucks
01-30-2013, 06:31 PM
A word for Max - he is FAST! He skates like he's been shot out of a cannon. And speed is probably the biggest factor in components. I agree, the second mark is his weakness, but let's see how he does.

And I totally agree with luenatic about Alex Johnson. He had the best program of the men, and his jumps are gorgeous, too. It's a tragedy that he didn't get any international assignments, doesn't have a SB or technical minimum and can't even be a 4CC alternate.

Sylvia
01-30-2013, 06:35 PM
The good news for Alex Johnson is that his 7th place finish in Senior qualifies him for Team C envelope funding next season and should give him a Senior B international at least (his most recent and only senior international to date was 2009 Finlandia Trophy where he placed 10th). Johnson's bio on IN: http://web.icenetwork.com/skaters/detail.jsp?id=100072&mode=I

ETA: I hope Johnson wins the PSA Edi Award for the best men's performance (FS) at Nationals.

starbucks
01-30-2013, 06:41 PM
I hope Johnson wins the PSA Edi Award for the best men's performance (FS) at Nationals.

ITA.

luenatic
01-30-2013, 06:50 PM
Johnson's bio on IN: http://web.icenetwork.com/skaters/detail.jsp?id=100072&mode=I


Thanks Sylvia! After reading his bio, now it makes sense to me why I thought of ballet when I saw him skate: "Favorite performer: Mikhail Baryshnikov"

Marco
01-30-2013, 07:03 PM
For those who dont think Max should go to worlds, who else do you think could be sent in his place?

Miner & Farris


Urmanov didn't have a lot of flexibility in his upper body, but he had gorgeous posture.

:swoon:

toddlj
01-30-2013, 07:08 PM
If the judges had given Aaron PCS in the Free Skate commensurate with what they gave him in the Short Program, he would not have won and might not even have made the Worlds team.

I went to the numbers to try to prove you wrong, but I couldn't.

Aaron's components for the short averaged 6.728 (factored comp score 33.64), while for the LP, they averaged 7.948 (factored comp score 79.48). So if he had been scored the same for the LP as he was for the SP, his score would be 12 points lower.

However, those around him had an improvement from the SP to the LP in their PCS as well. The judges were PCS-happy that night. Miner's went up by about 6 points, Abbott by about 6, Farris by about 7. So, stripping away the across-the-board inflation, Aaron gained about 6 points. The numbers show that you are correct; he would not have won without that extra boost.

That being said, I was at the rink, and Aaron's free skate was electric in person.

Skittl1321
01-30-2013, 07:18 PM
Are the judges for the short program the same people as the long program?


If it is all a conspiracy, I'm just baffled why judges would give Aaron a PCS boost to win- even he said coming into the competition he had no goal of even medaling. Why would they annoint him the chosen one if his skating didn't warrant the scores he got (and I personally think they did, at least within the 'nationals scores are always higher' range- PCS is not the artistic mark. His basics are not as good as Abbott's but I think he met the criteria he was scored on.)

Awesome
01-30-2013, 07:20 PM
My husband , who knows very little about figure skating, watched the men's long with me. He loved Max!! He said that it was about time that we have a men's champion who actually skates like a man. My 27 yr. old son agrees!

luenatic
01-30-2013, 07:22 PM
That being said, I was at the rink, and Aaron's free skate was electric in person. I totally understand this. I remember watching Jourbert and Elvis live at several Worlds, they were so exciting to watch! I guess that's the 'energy' I was experiencing. That should be counted towards the PE mark (but not the SS, TR mark)...

Vagabond
01-30-2013, 07:26 PM
I went to the numbers to try to prove you wrong, but I couldn't.

Aaron's components for the short averaged 6.728 (factored comp score 33.64), while for the LP, they averaged 7.948 (factored comp score 79.48). So if he had been scored the same for the LP as he was for the SP, his score would be 12 points lower....

So, stripping away the across-the-board inflation, Aaron gained about 6 points. The numbers show that you are correct; he would not have won without that extra boost.

Told ya.

:judge: :COP:

toddlj
01-30-2013, 07:27 PM
My husband , who knows very little about figure skating, watched the men's long with me. He loved Max!! He said that it was about time that we have a men's champion who actually skates like a man. My 27 yr. old son agrees! I have to be honest that I avoid comments like "skates like a man" because it implies men are better than women... or that there is weakness or frailty in being a woman, and I know plenty of women who are tough as nails. (I hate the phrase "throws like a girl" too. Some girls could knock you to the ground with their throw.) That being said, I did love how aggressive and confident Max was, and how safe and secure his jumps were. I don't want to lump that in with "manly" behavior, though, as I always bristle at the potential homophobia or gender bias in statements like that. Just sayin.

pinky166
01-30-2013, 07:31 PM
His basic skating is clearly inferior to that of Miner, Abbott, and Farris, not to mention several who finished off the podium (Johnson and Brown, for example). His choreography and transitions, such as they were, started about 48 seconds into the Free Skate when he went from his quadruple salchow into his first spin. The marks for each of his Program Components went up by more than a point between his (clean) Short Program and his (clean) Free Skate for no apparent reason other than factors that are not supposed to be considered in the marks.

If the judges had given Aaron PCS in the Free Skate commensurate with what they gave him in the Short Program, he would not have won and might not even have made the Worlds team.

I never said his basics were better than Miner, Abbott, or Farris, because I agree with you that they aren't, but those guys all have very good basics skating, so just because Max isn't quite on par in that regard, doesn't make him automatically bad. He won because he landed 3 clean quads in the event and had a backloaded program, while Miner landed 1 clean and 1 under-rotated quad and popped open an intended 3a and had a pretty front loaded program, Abbott under-rotated and fell on his only quad attempt, doubled two jumps, and didn't do a 3-jump combo, and Farris fell on his one quad attempt, lost a level on a spin and step sequence, and got two edge calls on his flips. In his FS he actually edged Farris out on components anyways, but Ross and Jeremy were way ahead in PCS so even the judges don't consider Max's presentation to be on par with those two, even when he had a clean skate and they made mistakes.

Basically, I feel like Max isn't getting the credit he deserves. No, he's not a lyrical artsy skater like Jeremy, nor does he have the "nice normal guy" charm of Ross, or the lines, looks, and endearing boyishness of Farris, but, that's okay. Yes, he used to play Hockey. Yes, he's short and compact, his legs especially. Yes, his programs are jump centric instead of pieces of art, and, yes, his looks might not appeal to everyone (I personally find him very cute though), but the technical side of figure skating is more important than ever in the men's even and Max has that in spades. Plus he's young and hardworking and driven. I think he's a great choice for Worlds and really do think he'll make the top 10 comfortably if he can skate like he usually does, just on the basis of his technical abilities. And his PCS won't be awful, they won't be as high as at Nationals but he'll get high 6s or low 7s most likely, which is what the likes of Dornbush, Farris, and Rippon usually get at international events so if you're arguing one of them should be going to Worlds instead, the PCS buffer would likely be slim to nonexistant for any of them, so it once again comes down to TES, and Max beats every guy in the US on the basis of TES so there you go.

kwanlysacek
01-30-2013, 07:39 PM
Here is another topic. Who is the biggest threat to upset Lysacek for the Olympic Gold next? I am not sure if it is Chan or Takahashi or Hanyu. It is obviously Evan's to lose but who has the best chance to beat him with a clean skate if he makes 2 or 3 uncharacteristic mistakes, or perhaps taking into account who of those others is most likely to skate cleanly.