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Iceman
12-23-2012, 01:05 PM
True, it was a long time ago, but Carriere was 10th at the 2007-2008 Worlds. Jeremy was 11th that year.

Sylvia
12-23-2012, 03:23 PM
(aside from Adam who has once been 5th at Worlds,
Adam Rippon placed 6th at 2010 Worlds (5th in FS), Abbott was 5th at 2010 Worlds.

Posted in another thread but I'm replying in this one:

BTW, are Tim Dolensky and Harrison Choate competing in seniors this season?
Choate and Philip Warren are the only 2 junior men from last season (4th & 3rd at 2012 Nationals, respectively) who will make their senior debut at Nationals in Omaha.

2012 U.S. junior silver medalist Tim Dolensky scored 200+ points in his 4th place finish in his senior international debut in Salt Lake City this past September (he landed a clean 3A in his SP there) but placed 6th in Senior Men at Eastern Sectionals and did not qualify for Nationals. From a Sectionals roundup article posted earlier in this thread:

"Leading up to sectionals, I was having trouble with my left ankle," he told us [IN's Inside Edge bloggers] by phone. "I have a stress fracture in my medial malleolus, which is weird because that's not my landing foot. If it was my right, I wouldn't have been able to jump at all. It got worse and worse; it hurts the most on the jumps where I push off of my left foot: Axel, Sal and toe.

"The two or three weeks leading up to sectionals were not good. I could only do triple loop and triple flip because the Lutz takeoff hurt. I was running my program with all loops and flips. By sectionals, it was finally starting to get better, but I lost a lot of training. That's why I didn't attempt the triple Axel or do a triple-triple because it hurt to pick in on toe loops."
Dolensky recently tweeted that he has started to jump again.

olympic
12-23-2012, 03:50 PM
... ITA re highlighted portions. Right now I think Jeremy and Ross have the edge based on their strong programs and best U.S. men standings on the GP. Of course anything is possible, but I think the fact they are also not new on the international senior scene is also a factor in their favor, whereas other U.S. men who might do well at Nationals but who don't have high visibility or success re senior international circuit, stand less chance (aside from Adam who has once been 5th at Worlds, and perhaps Josh since he's done well on JGP and JW) of being fairly marked at Worlds no matter how well they might do should they make the team.

For Richard, definitely it is consistency and rebuilding his confidence that are the keys.

How do you feel about a team that consists of Ross and Ricky? I would support that (provided they do well at Nationals) because Jeremy is a huge talent, but personally I'm tired of watching him do really well at either GPF or Nationals year after year, get my hopes up, only to be sorely disappointed by his performances at Worlds / Olympics. If we are going to get 2 spots anyway, why not just send another duo of younger skaters with more of a future?

orbitz
12-23-2012, 04:09 PM
Does Ross really have "more of a future" beyond 2014? While Ross has improved a great deal this year, I just can't picture him as a future # 1 U.S. guy. It's more realistic for Dornbush.

olympic
12-23-2012, 04:29 PM
BTW, JPN nationals concluded and the JSF named the team for Worlds -

Hanyu, Takahashi and Mura.

Oda just missed the podium and Kozuka had a bad competition. Apparently, Kozuka was injured a week before.

Not to besmirch Mura's triumph in getting on that really deep team but maybe the fortunes for the US men improved oh-so-slightly, meaning that Jeremy and co. stand a better chance of getting ahead of Mura at Worlds than someone like Kozuka.

Sylvia
12-23-2012, 04:44 PM
Just came across this clip of Grant Hochstein landing a quad toe in practice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtKl2R7y8zI

blue_idealist
12-23-2012, 05:23 PM
I'll go way out on a limb and predict Stephen Carriere will be a surprise medalist.

I wish that would happen. I always liked him!

merrywidow
12-23-2012, 05:41 PM
How do you feel about a team that consists of Ross and Ricky? I would support that (provided they do well at Nationals) because Jeremy is a huge talent, but personally I'm tired of watching him do really well at either GPF or Nationals year after year, get my hopes up, only to be sorely disappointed by his performances at Worlds / Olympics. If we are going to get 2 spots anyway, why not just send another duo of younger skaters with more of a future?

I'd be fine with Ross & Ricky going to Worlds '13 or throwing in Max, Armin, or any of the younger men. Like you, I feel Jeremy's chances at a World or Olympic medal have passed. He'll be under a lot of pressure at the upcoming Nationals & I think whoever goes to Worlds '13 we will still only have 2 spots for the Olympics. I'd love to be wrong tho. The thing is we have some younger men who don't fall apart when they make a mistake & are beginning to land quads as well in international competitions. Hochstein's quad, btw, is lovely!

aftershocks
12-23-2012, 07:43 PM
Interesting comments above by all ...

Great to see Grant Hochstein successfully landing a quad. Will be cool to see a lot of guys successfully landing quads at Nationals since that extra revolution is now deemed to be soooo important in the men's ranks. However, I'm more interested in seeing clean, fully realized programs with a quad as just part of the whole than I am in seeing flawed programs with successful or faulty quads.

Re your query olympic:

Whoever goes to Worlds, goes to Worlds. I just hope that all the guys are healthy and capable of bringing their best going into Nationals. I wish three guys could go to Worlds, but alas only two can go. I'm never tired of seeing Jeremy skate, and I will continue to support him and believe in him, and I will always be a fan of his skating. Someone mentioned there maybe being more of an opportunity for U.S. men re Mura going to Worlds rather than Kozuka. Perhaps, but Mura did well on the GP, and he definitely has the talent -- his only drawback might be newbie status at Worlds. U.S. guys are as good or better than both Kozuka and Mura -- but need to consistently show it!

Jeremy had physical problems during the GP, but he still managed to skate fairly brilliant programs. Like I said, I think that Jeremy and Ross have the strongest one-two punches re their beautifully choreographed programs. I think Ricky's programs are also very strong, and if he skates them like he can and lands everything, all bets are off. But Ricky would absolutely need to do great at Nationals and at Worlds, as would Jeremy and Ross, and anyone who makes the Worlds team. We'll see what happens at Nationals in January. Based on what Jeremy and Ross have showed during the season so far, I feel that Jeremy and Ross have the competitive edge, but anything can happen.

It would be unfortunate to see high-rated guys skate incredible programs at Nationals and then go to Worlds and run out of steam (which is kinda what happened at 2012 Worlds), or see unexpected and/ or unheralded guys do really well at Nationals, go to Worlds and skate well there but NOT get great marks because they are deemed newbies and relatively unknown. The latter is kinda what happened at 2011 Worlds. That's the conundrum. Whoever goes to Worlds need to pace themselves, be healthy and well-prepared, and be rarin' to go, as well as fully backed politically ... e.g., "Our guys have the chops and they need to be rewarded!" But then, our guys need to back up that political support and show what they've got -- NO TIME FOR TEARS OR THE WILLIES.

Re your comments about Ross Miner, orbitz:
If Ross decides he wants to have a future in skating beyond 2014, he will have one. He certainly has the talent, potential, and above all, the consistency along with notable success. Obviously our individual perceptions as fans are often based on who we really like or enjoy more. I give props to all the guys and I'd love to see an incredibly wonderful Nationals in all the disciplines, and then see everyone really represent with their best at Worlds. It would be great to see that, no matter the judges scores.

Who I really really like are many, including Jeremy, Ross, Richard, Adam, Joshua, Jason, Keegan, Armin, Jonathan, Philip Warren. :saint: Plus I very much admire, Grant Hochstein, Stephen Carriere, Doug Razzano, Sean Rabbit, Alexander Johnson, Harrison Choate, and Scott Dyer. :rollin:

Wouldn't it be cool if all the U.S. and Japanese men who are very talented but who can't make it out of their Nationals could have a rip-roaring showdown styled: East vs West in a BEST OF THE REST competition?!!! :cheer:

olympic
12-23-2012, 07:57 PM
I wish that would happen. I always liked him!

Yes. So much potential. Alas, he never really puts it all together. A season and a half ago, he seemingly mastered the 3x, which was a weak spot back in '08 and '09, and I thought we were on the verge of seeing a consistent Carriere turn into a leading man for the US. However, he always loses it somewhere in the program whether it's that 3x, a Quad attempt, or even a simpler triple. There is also a frenetic quality about him that will not allow him to break through

olympic
12-23-2012, 10:01 PM
Interesting comments above by all ...
Re your query olympic:

Whoever goes to Worlds, goes to Worlds. I just hope that all the guys are healthy and capable of bringing their best going into Nationals. I wish three guys could go to Worlds, but alas only two can go. I'm never tired of seeing Jeremy skate, and I will continue to support him and believe in him, and I will always be a fan of his skating. Someone mentioned there maybe being more of an opportunity for U.S. men re Mura going to Worlds rather than Kozuka. Perhaps, but Mura did well on the GP, and he definitely has the talent -- his only drawback might be newbie status at Worlds. U.S. guys are as good or better than both Kozuka and Mura -- but need to consistently show it!

Jeremy had physical problems during the GP, but he still managed to skate fairly brilliant programs. Like I said, I think that Jeremy and Ross have the strongest one-two punches re their beautifully choreographed programs. I think Ricky's programs are also very strong, and if he skates them like he can and lands everything, all bets are off. But Ricky would absolutely need to do great at Nationals and at Worlds, as would Jeremy and Ross, and anyone who makes the Worlds team. We'll see what happens at Nationals in January. Based on what Jeremy and Ross have showed during the season so far, I feel that Jeremy and Ross have the competitive edge, but anything can happen.

It would be unfortunate to see high-rated guys skate incredible programs at Nationals and then go to Worlds and run out of steam (which is kinda what happened at 2012 Worlds), or see unexpected and/ or unheralded guys do really well at Nationals, go to Worlds and skate well there but NOT get great marks because they are deemed newbies and relatively unknown. The latter is kinda what happened at 2011 Worlds. That's the conundrum. Whoever goes to Worlds need to pace themselves, be healthy and well-prepared, and be rarin' to go, as well as fully backed politically ... e.g., "Our guys have the chops and they need to be rewarded!" But then, our guys need to back up that political support and show what they've got -- NO TIME FOR TEARS OR THE WILLIES.



ITA. I'm not against Jeremy going to Worlds if he skates well enough to be top 2 at Nationals, and there is a good chance of that happening. I think I just find myself frustrated terribly with the roller coaster he puts us on - I find myself thinking 'this could be the year he breaks through at Worlds.' But, it never happens and he's going to be 28 yrs. old next year.

Iceman
12-23-2012, 11:53 PM
Abbott should have never left Colorado.

pinky166
12-24-2012, 01:55 AM
^^ While that may be true, what's done is done. The one thing Jeremy does have going for him though is that even when his tanks, his PCS stay pretty high, meaning a Jeremy-bomb is likely to still score/place better than a bomb from virtually any of the other guys in contention. What it really comes down to is, is there someone else consistent enough that we can count on to score better than a Jeremy bomb. So who may this be, Ross, but he's likely to be on the team anyway, Max?, it would be his Worlds debut, and his PCS will definitely not hold him up should he struggle, so it might not be worth the risk, Josh?, it sounds like he wants to go to JW anyway, and while we haven't seen a real bomb from him in awhile, his last few competitions he's left a lot of points on the table, and it would also be his Worlds debut, and senior international debut, so that could be a risky move as well. Adam? He has the experience and doesn't usually bomb, but with his wonky 3a and lack of a quad (so far this season), his scores likely won't be that high even with a relatively clean skate. So I think it doesn't really matter who goes to Worlds, there's going to be a lot of risk either way, and getting 3 spots will be tough but possible with any reasonable team I tend to think. I will say that I think Ross should be on the team, who joins him and if he's the number 1 or number 2 guy going in is up in the air, but I think he's sort of the go-to American guy at this point.

I more hope we manage to get 3 spots because I'd like to see a young up-and-comer without much international experience (Josh, Max, Keegan, Jason, etc) or two make the team. We have so many good guys in the US that it's a shame getting 3 spots consistently has been a struggle, so I hope that can be changed in time for the Olympics.

aftershocks
12-24-2012, 03:43 AM
Abbott should have never left Colorado.

Hey, I'm not sure what is meant by that pronouncement. :lol: I think Jeremy has grown so very much since leaving Colorado, as a skater, a person and an exemplary artist. His bond and his working relationship with Yuka and Jason, and especially with Yuka, is very special. I don't think Jeremy left anything he truly needed behind in Colorado, except for his family ... and they are always there for him anyway, supporting him through thick and thin. On the ice, Jeremy is Master & Commander! He just needs to amp up the "Commander" and put everything together, right time right place, and consistently!


ETA:

Re your comments pinky: IMO, getting 3 spots for U.S. men has not so much been "a struggle," as it has been just a miscalculation by U.S. Fed in 2011, when the three spots were lost because Worlds judges low-balled then newbies Ross and Richard who both skated clean programs, and didn't rate Ryan that highly plus Ryan didn't skate his absolute best. That's it in a nutshell. Then in 2012 with the 2 U.S. guys we all felt and hoped could and would bring the 3 spots back, they didn't skate their best and did not seem to be at full strength. That's why I say whoever goes to Worlds this season need to pace themselves and be hungry and ready. Uselessly now wondering if Ross had gone to Worlds last season, might it have made any difference, since he had medaled at NHK and at 4CCs.

But blah, the past is the past ... these guys have to do it in the moment. Good luck to all!

johndockley92
12-24-2012, 11:44 AM
. U.S. guys are as good or better than both Kozuka and Mura -- but need to consistently show it!


Wouldn't it be cool if all the U.S. and Japanese men who are very talented but who can't make it out of their Nationals could have a rip-roaring showdown styled: East vs West in a BEST OF THE REST competition?!!! :cheer:

Don't necessarily agree with that first statement :P

But yeah, it'd be really cool if there was a US, Japan, Russia Competition where each country sends their 3rd (or 4th depending on how many slots they had at worlds) - 12th (or 13th) place competitors to have a showdown in men and ladies. I believe that such a competition would also allow skaters to earn minimum points since it'd have three countries competing (or is it supposed to be 4?). Make the competition so that it's a week or two after Worlds and put in a rule that says those competing there cannot have competed at Sr. Worlds.